If you’re tuned into the Zwift racing scene, you already know the team at HQ is working to bring effective sandbagging controls into the game. The ZHQ Beta Races in Crit City are the testbed for these new controls, and several days ago I observed a beta race to see how the controls work.
But I hadn’t actually participated in a ZHQ Beta Race, until today. Not only was I itching for a quick, tough race – I also wanted to see how the current sandbagging controls affected the out-of-category riding which has become more prominent thanks to the recent, massive influx of new Zwifters. Time to see the green cones of shame firsthand. Let’s race!
The Warmup
The race was at 8 am, which really isn’t an ideal time for me. Too late for my typical fasted morning ride, and right when I’m usually getting into my workday. But it had to be done. For science! So I chewed my caffeine gum – 2 pieces this time, and well before the race, because I’ve recently read that caffeine should be taken about 1 hour before the big effort. And of course I rubbed some PR lotion into my legs, to take the edge off the burn and help me push to my max.
I headed to Tempus Fugit for my typical warmup, and just as I was starting to get the legs warm my lovely wife Monica texted me: “Are you riding right now?” Apparently we’d had some miscommunication, and she was planning on riding Zwift in a few minutes. (While we have both of our own bikes set up, we only have one big-screen TV in the Zwift room). Since she had called first dibs, I moved my Zwift session over to my office computer, which meant a quick monitor move and game startup to get a session started there. A bit more warmup, then it was time to head to the start pens.
The Start
There were 102 riders in the B pack, and as we hit the first of our 12 Downtown Dolphin laps it became clear that this was going to be a tough race. Was it tough because my legs were more tired than anticipated, or were riders pushing the pace at the front? I wasn’t entirely sure, but I knew I was suffering! Instead of sitting in a few wheels from the front, I was struggling to hold onto the back of the pack, shamelessly tailgunning.
Luckily, tailgunning on Zwift doesn’t cause the sort of effort “accordion” effect that it does outdoors. It didn’t take long for me to see a pattern form in my pack positioning: I would work my way closer to the front up the brick prime climb, then drift back as we made our way down the twisty descent. Then I would move forward again as we hit the lap banner and made our way up the false flat toward the eSports stage.
Green Cone Observation
I expected some green cones to show up after the first minute of racing, since the cone can be triggered by both 1-minute and 5-minute power. But we didn’t see any cones until the second lap, almost 4 minutes in, when one virtual-powered “L.Santamaria” got flagged.
By the third lap, 7 minutes into the race, several more green cones had appeared. Despite my high level of personal suffering, I couldn’t help but try to watch these coned riders, to see how Zwift’s “throttling” would affect their position in the race.
Most of the coned riders slowly drifted out of our front pack and into oblivion. But a couple stayed with our front group, and I made a mental note to check into their power numbers once the race ended. Because I wanted to find out: what sort of power did a B need to hold to stay with the front pack, even after their power was throttled by Zwift’s green cone of shame? More on this later!
The Middle
5 laps in and our group of 102 starters had been whittled down to just 22. This was a tough race! As Monica spun her way around the Watopian desert in zone 2, my heart rate was squarely in zone 4, where it would stay for 92.9% of the race according to Strava.
My max heart rate is ~189, and most Zwift races find me averaging somewhere between 167-172BPM. Today’s average? 177. Was it the extra caffeine, taken a little early? Perhaps. Was it the fast race pace? Certainly a factor!
Garbage Thinking
Gaps opened up ahead of me occasionally, but I was always able to close them down before getting dropped. It was hard work, though, and as we passed the 20-minute mark my mind shifted from envisioning an incredible final sprint to wondering if I’d even be in the mix for end!
But this is just garbage thinking, right? For me at least, these thoughts occur in almost every Zwift race. I find myself on the limit, struggling to grab a wheel, and somehow think I’m the only one suffering. But of course that wasn’t the case. 80% of the field had already been dropped, and certainly most of the riders in this front pack were suffering just like I was.
Everyone is hurting. This is something I have to remind myself as I race on Zwift. Doing so gives me hope – hope that I’ll be able to hang on until the end. Hope that maybe, just maybe, I’ll have a little bit more left than the next guy at the end. Hope for the elusive race win.
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The End
With only 4 laps to go the front pack still held two green cones: “T.Gumpo” and “L.Santamaria”. Knowing they wouldn’t show up in final results on ZwiftPower, I just hoped they didn’t jump off the front and pull a legit racer to victory.
The final laps flew by, and soon enough the crazy last lap was upon us. I knew the drill by this point: everyone would jump hard on the prime bricks, then it was a question of surfing the wheels and staying near the front down the twisties before hitting the sprint with whatever I had left. I had a truck powerup, so I waited until I was ~30 seconds from the finish before triggering it, using the increased draft to work my way through the riders as we all gutted out the final meters.
I was in the drops, out of the saddle, head down, putting everything I had into my 50/11. Monica was my eyes, watching the screen and yelling “Keep pushing, go go go, you’re almost there!”
When I crossed the line, I looked up at the results: 4th place. And two of those ahead were obvious sandbaggers. Does that mean I got 2nd place? I headed to ZwiftPower to confirm: 2nd place it was. First loser! But I was happy with the result, given how difficult the race had been.
Looking at my Strava power curve for this race, I set some new PRs for power in the 27-31 minute range. So my legs were in good shape – it was just a super tough race.
See my activity on Strava >
See my activity on Zwift >
See race results on ZwiftPower >
Takeaways
This race is a good example of an event where my body wanted to quit, and my mind supported the idea. But I kept pushing, and finished in second place. Just .048 seconds from a win!
So the takeaway from this race is: do away with garbage thinking. Perhaps it’s time for me to dig into sports psychology a bit – a little mental training may do me good.
Sandbagging Details from ZwiftHQ
I reached out to Jordan Rapp, the game designer at Zwift HQ who is working to bring sandbagging controls to fruition. I asked him for more info on what happens when a racer receives the green cone of shame in these beta races. Is their speed artificially slowed, perhaps by increased Crr? Is their power actually reduced, like Zwift’s warning message indicates?
Jordan said, “Zwift is currently throttling power. We never touch the speed inferred from power (output). Only the power (input). There are some changes to how MUCH we throttle power coming in the next release.”
The level of power throttling was something I wanted more info on. Was it high enough, if two of the coned riders could stay with our front group until almost the end of the race? (Those two coned riders, by the way, averaged 6.4 w/kg // 480w and 6.0 w/kg // 447w for the race. Ha!) I asked Jordan if he was going to be increasing the power throttling, and he said:
“Yes, a LOT more. We’re bumping up the baseline throttling (and also making it easier to tune). And we’re adding in a multiplier that looks at how egregiously you broke the limits. An A racer in a D race will get hit a lot harder than a C racer in a D race.”
Sounds smart to me! I’m excited for Zwift’s next release, which I hear is just around the corner (next week or two). I know I speak for many other racers in saying I’m looking forward to seeing the green cones make their way into other races. If Zwift’s new sandbagging controls can eliminate most of the negative effects of racers riding below their proper category (and I think they can), it will be a huge upgrade to the Zwift race experience.
Your Thoughts
Have you ridden in a ZHQ Beta Race recently? How was it? Have you been coned yourself? Share your experience below!
I personally think that anyone classed to be sandbagging should automatically have big enough a drop in power to not allow them to effect the race anymore. Maybe no draft and a serious drop of power. Too often you have quality riders sitting on the wheel of zpower athletes putting out silly stats. Is it possible to link more with zwift power and simply not allow a rider of a higher category to enter a lower category race? Training rides are obviously different but anytime you enter a race you should be in the correct category.
i think removing their draft is an excellent idea
Couldn’t agree more, I did a D race and managed to place 1st on ZP. However I was with a group of 9 riders who all had exceeded the allowed what’s and got cones. I definitely won the race by using their draft. Removing their draft would have stopped this. I also think they should be removed from the results on Zwift. Why should you be 4th if you enter the right category should say second exactly like ZPower does. Remove their result they won’t bother again!!!!
While we’re waiting for this wouldn’t it be really easy for them to just take a quick glance at a riders power duration curve and keep 90% of the sandbaggers from every entering the wrong category by just not making that category available to them? It doesn’t have to be a perfect solution but one that could happen immediately and catch a huge percentage of them. Use ZP cat system but put a little more tolerance into it. Example: ZP says B is 3.2 w/kg and at least 200w ftp. Zwift could not make available C and D racing options to you if your power was 3.0 w/kg and at least 220w. That would catch a huge number of sandbaggers. Very quick and simple solution. Not perfect but would seem to be extremely simple to implement.
Now come on Harry. That is too rational and simple.
Simple, easy and obvious. Doesn’t require all the fun of complex coding, therefore not of much interest to a game designer. That’s the crux of it, I think you’ll find.
I don’t disagree, Harry.
They ARE popping up a warning if you sign up for a too of a category. One reason they’re doing it the “real-time way”, I would guess, is because not every rider has the power numbers in the system. This stops people from ruining races on their first attempt, too.
Whilst i agree, i dont think this is the best option. I personally like riding in races with my mates, who are all Cat D (myself Cat B). I often just ride with them and encourage them and never contend for the win (maybe a cheeky lead out AT THEIR POWER for a bit of racing fun).
I think a throttling of power is the best way to go. I also think the throttling should take someone out of contention completely to stop splitting races early and ruining the experience for others. Being throttled once should ruin the race for the individual and therefore influence them to reconsider.
If you are entering races like you say you are you are affecting the results just by being in the pack (unless of course you sit 5-10m of the back). This is exactly why riders should be stopped from entering the wrong class full stop. If you want to ride with your friends do it in a trading ride/group.
Eric – Check out “It Takes What It Takes” by Trevor Moawad. One key topic: “Neutral thinking, not Positive or Garbage (Negative) thinking.
This is certainly a step in the right direction. But I think it is a lot of effort.
IF Avr(FTP*0.95/weight, 4 week) > 4.0 then A,
IF Avr(FTP*0.95/weight, 4 week) > 3.2 then B,
IF Avr(FTP*0.95/weight, 4 week) > 2.5 then C.
There I fixed it. LOL
By, “Since she had called first dibs” do you mean, “Since she’s the boss and I would like to have somewhere to sleep tonight” 😉
Always love reading your write ups to get me through the mid-morning hump. Ride on.
I had a chance to try a Beta ZHQ race and I think that this is a step in the right direction but. The problem with how Zwift is going about it is that by the time they are get a cone of shame they have already blown up the race for every other rider. Yeah they are throttled but the other riders are toast trying to hold the sandbaggers wheel in the lead group for 4 minutes.
Again, the ZP way seems easier. Calculate the top 3 1hr FTP performances over the last few weeks, use that to assign a cat, and only make that category available to the rider. Everyone gets to race, new racers don’t have to wonder which cat they should join, no one is excluded, if you come back from injury or time off the bike you will get put back to a lower class, everyone wins.
They can even have a E cat for every race, if you want a recovery race you enter E, come back form injury or long time no racing you have to race two E races. E cat can see all riders (A,B,C and D) but the other cat’s only see their Cat riders. No one excluded all can race. No need for FTP tests, just jump into E and get your ranking done.
Using previous 1-hour results might not work. For example, I use Zwift for zone 2 and racing (so far, only the 8-lap CC races). All my interval training is in TrainerRoad. So, my “best” 1 hour power on Zwift is nowhere near my FTP.
That said, I’m not against limiting race categories somehow, just not sure how best to enforce it. And if there should be any squishiness to the calculation (anecdotally, in those short races, I’m getting crushed by guys with lower w/kg who outweigh me by 10+kg but throw down monster power). No different than flat crits in meat-space, but in meat-space UCI/USAC rules keep me in the “correct” category based on results and not my body mass.
Dunno, just thinking aloud here.
Yep, watts per kilo doesn’t really work in a cat race. Hopefully their long term solution they have coming is more based on results, rather than fitness signature.
I like what Zwift is doing. But we should also give measures some time to take effect. It will take most cheaters a few races to understand that they are unwanted. Hopefully after some time most will get the message.
Eric, I’m curious why Zwift doesn’t manage the Cats like IRL? Everyone starts at the bottom and as you race/win you earn points and at some point you are “forced” to upgrade to the next Cat? If you make it to “B” for example and stop winning, you remain in “B”. Until you start making top 5 and collecting points again towards a move to “A”. I know plenty of people IRL who make it to Cat 4 and stay there for years. This question must have come up already but I haven’t seen it asked/addressed. Thanks!
Because creating such a system is quite complex. It’s their longer-term plan for sure (they’ve said it repeatedly)–but right now, they’re just trying to put measures in place to clean up the races.
Also worth noting: a true results-based category system would solve SOME sandbagging problems, but not all. For example: it would move all of the mis-calibrated riders holding 6w/kg up into the A’s, where it would wreck those races. So we still need some controls that say “your power ain’t right.” 🙂
1) Well, I might contest that it is quite complex. We all understand the IRL option very easily and its not hard to programatically model. 2) the miscalibrated riders will have less of an impact on a higher cat race than a lower cat race 3) the issue of sorting out that ‘your power isnt right’ needs to be addressed independently / in parallel anyway. Its not a reason for not implementing a standard category system.
Anyway, at least its a start on addressing the issue.
So if a new Zwifter happens to be a Cat1/Pro, he has to work his way up into the correct category by smashing the guts out of a bunch of D/C/B races before he’s in the correct category?
I think the approach of eliminating people during a race is still necessary, regardless of what other pre-race protections are built in.
I just hope the system is set up in such a way that it doesn’t allow people to sandbag throughout the first 90% of the race, and then blow everyone away in a last minute solo breakaway, or in the final sprint.
Seems like the coning algorithm should have caught P. Teague (5.6 wkg) and A. Borgianni (4.6 wkg)….?
Seems like it! I think some riders don’t get coned because they’re running outdated versions of Zwift. But who knows?
Do you know what the next step in anti-sendbagging will be? It seems like this green coning is a mild deterrent, and not infallible. I understand that there are plans for a ladder system somewhere down the road. Any ETA on that? Anything between the two?
I raced in an evening ZHQ Crit City beta race which you also raced in (I think you came 3rd?) I was working hard to hold the front pack, but dropped off just as cones popped up everywhere. It’s frustrating as these guys would have significantly pushed the pack of that pack. I like the coning, but it is still applied after sandbaggers have influenced the race. If zwift knows what category someone should be in, they should enforce that in races. I haven’t heard a single legitimate reason for someone racing down a cat. This also allows for people to race down, ‘cruise’ at the back of the pack, and have plenty of reserves left for the final push and sprint.
Off Topic: Eric, after creating a meetup and chatting with participants via chat, I can no longer disable chat for group tours or races. Even using that option in the game settings.
Chat was disabled for 2 years, now I can’t do it anymore. Which is frustrating.
Congratulations on your blog. I follow all the news here in Brazil.
Re the mental toughness training: Fitzgerald’s “How Bad Do You Want It?” and Hutchinson’s “Endure” are both excellent.
I was in the same race yesterday, fighting to hang on to wheels somewhere in the middle of the Cs. Like Eric’s race, plenty of green comes with varying results. Some suffered for a while and dropped back. But others seemed able to power through it and stay up front. I’m looking forward to seeing Zwift’s throttling multiplier in the next release.
Curious to see how race tactics evolve when this is fully implemented. Assuming a group of sandbaggers can charge off the front as the race starts and aren’t coned for a couple of minutes, the question will be do we try and hang onto them until the cones take effect or do we let them go off the front with the goal of reeling them back in once they are throttled.
I am curious what the experience is like for someone who is coned. Anyone want to fess up?
I can imagine that when this is in place, the deliberate sandbaggers will stop racing in the wrong category. Only the people who are unaware are in the wrong race then. Hopefully that will help make it a more fair race!
I just come to give you the utmost of praise. That was a hell of a race and as you move ever closer to the A Cat of hell. You are both an inspiration as well as a community asset from all regards. Cheers my brother and way to kick some ass ..Alien King.. is a proud supporter of Zwift Insider and Eric Schlange the crazy ass racer
Thanks man!
@eric
Right now categories are based on FTP but the “Green Parachute of Shame” is based on 1 & 5min power. Given the various rider phenotypes, it’s entirely possible to have a below average FTP but an incredible 1 min power. Would something like this trigger throttling? And do you know if ZHQ has any plans to take a broader look at rider’s power curves instead of just FTP?
Something like that could trigger throttling, yes. But Jordan has said they’re pretty generous with the 1-minute power window, for this very reason. 5-minute power is more restrictive, because it’s more closely related to 20-minute.
I haven’t heard anything about plans to take a broader look at rider’s power curves.
I would like to hear how you define “throttling” of power. I would assume it means Zwift will reduce the power its giving you credit for as compared to the raw output of whatever device its reading. I guess that serves the purpose, but what if instead you put a “governor” on that power so at some point you just hit the ceiling, but you could still function normally under an appropriate level?
Good blog. Thanks. Im new to zwift following covid and have done 3 races. One at 4.6, 4.7 and a crit at 4.9wpkg. I use a elite qubo fluid power b+ wheel on trainer. It has a good road feel and im happy with it. Although out of the saddle sprinting is a no no.
I was concerned about being labled a cheat as its zpower. Not trying to brag or anything but i win plenty of races. In fact i won IRL 2 weeks before lockdown so am in good shape. I dont use a powermeter on the road so its hard to compare. I bought the trainer off a friend and he has similar numbers on his new smart trainer as he did on this one which made me feel better.
I just dont want to get dq every race. The three races ive done were ok on zwift power though. If i was in a position financially to buy a new smart trainer i would. The race i dod sunday ( richmond) i finished 6th(A cat). However on zwift power i was pumped up to 2nd despite having zpower. Howver in the last 5 mins of the race a lot of red wpkg was flagging up on the other riders so im guessing that is the reason for dq. Either way it felt like a real road race with tactics involved rather that a smash from start to finish. Enjoying zwift so far and your content 👍
I’m curious if any changes will come to A races. I assume no sandbagging limits there but it’s damn near impossible to survive in a big A race as a 4.0-4.5. a year ago there would be half a dozen maybe A+ guys in a bigger a race, now with 20-30 A+ folks (some legit, most not I’m guessing) it’s just a TT till you drop off the back as a low A. I know I know, not everyone can be at the pointy end of a race, but mentally there’s a big difference between getting beaten by some verified pro and a guy who rides 2 hours a week but still has an ftp north or 5.5 w/kg. I think you’d see a lot of people at the top of B cat more willing to race As if that got fixed.
Yeah, I’m hearing this a lot. The A cat is just to broad at this point.
I believe there are some sandbagging controls in A cat, just like the other cats.
Well said Robin.
I’ve just ridden a Cat C Zwift HQ Crit, coming in ZwiftPower 12th. The guy who won averaged 6.7Wkg!!! Surely someone averaging that sort of power ought to be kicked out of the race at some point, not throttled!
Are the ZHQ Beta Crit City Races the only way to try this at the moment?
Yes.
Hi, I am a C racer (up to 3.19 W/kg), but on a 26 minute race recently I apparently averaged 3.42. And I raised my FTP by 18 watts. The power of a good sleep the night before, and a proper warmup, I think. Anyway, Zwiftpower DQd me with a ‘Wkg’ result. And now my profile says I am a B. Yet I was 1 second behind the winner in C who also had 3.4 average. Any insights in to what is going on?
Two different things going on here, it appears.
ZwiftPower chooses your category based on the average of your best efforts in the last 90 days.
But if you exceed the limits enough, you’ll get DQ’d from the event.
A potential solution to the issue of the green cones not appearing until after the damage has been done: any rider who gets a cone in a race still has it from the start of their next one if they still choose too low a category. Throttled from the off.
Great idea Colin
So if you are borderline C/B say and you do a shorter race you are going to get flagged? I could hold 3.4 for a 20 min race maybe. Especially if I know it’s only 20 min. But I couldn’t hold that for say a 30mi race. Are they taking that into account?
Zwift power use 95% of your best 20 minute power. No matter how long the race is. FTP get calculated from a 20 minute test. So if you can hold 3.4 for 20 min then your FTP is 3.4*0.95= 3.23 and that is a B
This is exactly my problem, but I’m a high D / low C. I can only race short events because Zwift Power classified me as a C based on 3 short races where I averaged just over D power.
I guess I just wait 90 days until I get reclassified back down?
I’m borderline, too. I decided to stick it out in the harder category. Sometimes I can hang on to the front group, and then die in the sprint. Other times I end up in a chasing (read: losing ground) group. Either way, I’m working hard and increasing fitness.
Dumb idea that’s too simple to ever use…Rather than throttle sandbagger down some % of their watts, which can be a tiny bit higher than trigger or massively over, just apply soccer logic and yellow card them for x seconds to max w/kg of 75% of the category, not their current power. After x seconds, release the throttle. Next trigger, reapply but maybe for more than x seconds. After z yellow cards, apply the red card and set the throttle at 89-90% of category max for the rest of the race.
I posted my April 9th race experience on FB. Lots of green cones were appearing after about 4 minutes (good to see it that early). Even though I was warned at the start, that I might be entered in the wrong category, I ended up finishing mid-pack and was passed by groups of green cones and lapped by more than one green cone in the C race. That prompted my suggestion that they they throttle riders more severely and to a max of the lower w/kg limit of category (generally 2.5 w/kg for Cs), so coneheads end up placing near the bottom.
Another comment I had that day: “I wonder if Zwift has considered a tiered approach. A “soft touch” for the mild offenders and a serious smack down for the egregious offenders” So, it’s good to read Jordan’s comment “An A racer in a D race will get hit a lot harder than a C racer in a D race.”
I did the ZHQ crit race yesterday in cat D. The winner had a w/kg over 7 and the others weren’t far off him. They certainly weren’t taken out of the race nor the the results.
It’s become a game now where the cheaters will keep increasing their watts until they overpower the green cones they are given.
I don’t think leaving these cheaters in the race will work. It needs to work like the orange cone and just lower their speed down to well below race speed so they can’t compete.
An excellent read, thanks ! I was wondering about the throttling, so it’s power, not speed, but just power in the race or what’s recorded in Zwift and passed on to Strava or ZP ?
Anyway I did the same race today and…got “coned” !!! Even though I’m a B in ZP and was hanging on for dear life (as I’d been since the beginning) around the 30th position in the last lap when I got the notification. I’d been dropped by the chase group around lap 6 after the climb and had managed to catch some guys (some coned who were going very slowly) by taking turns with a guy who finished 15″ ahead of me in the end so it doesn’t seem like I was throttled a lot. Are there maybe different levels of throttling ? I have no idea if it’s my 1′ or 5′ w/kg that triggered it but I rather feel like a “casualty” of the new system as I ended with 4.1/313 and certainly didn’t spoil anyone’s race.
I’m 76kg so neither light not heavy and I’m tall and I won’t be cheating on my weight and size but looking at the results in ZC and even ZP you have to roll your eyes at some numbers there and how many (most) riders in the ZC Top 10 did not get “coned”…or maybe they did and had enough of a lead ?
Nothing’s going to be perfect but at the very least Zwift should look at both w/kg and watts like ZP does and have some “give” in the system to avoid putting down the hammer in error. Until that happens I will have to ignore “anti-sandbagging” races and rely on ZP for proper ranking.
Throttling power is fine, I guess. But it just seems it would be simpler to make race categorization based on previous results. Everyone starts as a D. Win or place high a few times you’re bumped up to C. Again to B, A. And you can only register for the level you’re at. Only way to drop down is to prove you had some sort of injury, etc.
So you finished 4th in the race and 2nd on ZP. And that to me is the reason there are so many sandbaggers. The second that race ended the sandbaggers took a screenshot of the Zwift results and posted it for all their friends to see. The simple solution is a private warning for out of Cat. power, followed by being kicked out of the race for 2nd violation. Because as others have said, by the time they loss power and or draft, they have already messed up the race. But this will never happen because at the end of the day the sandbaggers are still paying customers that Zwift will want to keep as paying customers.
Few of ideas;
I have raced in 5 Beta Crit City races, and enjoyed them all. However today’s race was very different in that all riders from every category were visible on the course, and the right hand list of riders had disappeared. This meant is was very difficult to see who I was actually racing from my own category, B.
A couple of riders were able to zoom past at supersonic speeds, finishing in 10 and 21 minutes! Soon riders were all over the course, several had stopped, no doubt put off by the 2 rockets. It was difficult to form a group, and I spent a lot of the race on my own. All in all a very confused race, and I hope just a glitch.
Looks like you raced in the 9.00 (CET) beta crit race today. I raced in the 17.00 one and had exactly the same experience. The rider list showed only myself and no information on position. With all riders visible, cones everywhere it was basically total chaos and a mad scramble to try to hang on to the front group and not let anyone sneak away. In one sense it was more like an IRL race where you don’t get constant information about position and power for other riders, but a bit too messy with all cat riders visible…
I see that Eric Min was in the same race as you, racing in cat A. Hopefully Zwift HQ is aware of the bug with the disappearing rider list/position information!
Same bug in the “non beta” Crit Race at 15:35 CET – the list of riders quickly disappeared and it was hard to figure out what was going on ! In ZC you could see colored dots corresponding to the categories (I think). The list of riders came back after the race 😉
Not sure if it’s related but my activity does not open in Zwift Web or ZC, it did make its way to ZP though. A good thing I recorded the session with my FR935.
I’m a the border between B and A (4.1/316) and got “coned” in a Beta Crit on Tuesday and WKG in ZP yesterday, not a good place to be 😉
Interesting to read your continued thoughts on sandbagging, Eric. I’m finding myself with two frustrations in this regard. I recently bumped up to “B”. While Zwiftpower still lists me as “C”, I got removed WKG from a race where I completely gutted myself and set personal bests since my PB was outside of the “C” category. Frustrating to get DQ’d on a historic effort. The flip side is that now I’m racing in “B”, oftentimes the winners are the ones that hang with the “A”s at the start of the race. Either they stay with the pack the whole way, or form their own selection for the win. Would be a lot fairer if the categories started a minute apart so people from lower cats couldn’t hang on to faster people that shouldn’t be affecting the race. Is an A cat person dragging a B really any different than an A sandbagging in B?
This is why I only do races were categories start separately! Just look at their start times in the Companion app to find out if they’re starting separately… most races do it that way. 3R races do not…
Participated in last nights Beta Race @ 6PM, B Cat.
the winner of our Category (apparently) averaged 9/1(!) w/kg.
We didn’t see any cones. Dude finished 6’58” up on the rest of the pack – lapping us.
Seems like Zwift has more work to do.
I think I also raced in the same beta yesterday that Jay Z was in, also cat. B. My power is close to the top (ZP says “Almost A”) but the best I’ve managed in a crit is fourth. Yesterday there was great strangeness – after perhaps less than a minute I could suddenly see all cats on the road (despite this being a race where I should only be able to see my cat.), and totally lost the ability to draft. People were getting coned all over the shop but I never saw one against my name or above my head. I don’t mind if my power was throttled – as people have already mentioned, it might be a sign you need to go up a category, which is a compliment of sorts – but do you know if you the racer are actually made aware you’re being throttled? I’m interested to know if anyone else has had this experience, or maybe it’s some kind of bug as it was only a few hours after the update release. (Race was 30/04/20, 4pm BST)
great article! I love your storytelling of the race. You make we want to go back on Zwift everytime 🙂
Hi, a slightly different take on anti-sandbagging. I think it’s a great idea for all the obvious reasons about people winning races they shouldn’t even be entering, but even more I like the approach they are taking, rather than just kicking people out of the race. I’m Cat C, but only just and fairly recently. It was nice doing well in Cat D races, but once you progress enough to be moved up, why would you want to compete in the wrong category. But sometimes I still do enter Cat D races, not to try to win them, but because sometimes I don’t want to push myself to the max just to hang on to the back of a Cat C bunch and come in completely shattered in the bottom end of the rankings. Sometimes I just want a nice easy ride, but not just in a sub2 group or a workout. Being able to hang back a little at the start so I don’t mess up the race at the front allows me to find a good paced group I can settle down with and share a bit of the work on the front. The anti-sandbagging will identify the people who are stealing the victories but allow riders like me who just want an easier race to still do that. If I ever do get green-coned (unlikely!) I think I’ll just knock it off and drift to the back or pull out altogether.
I have raced in several of the Beta Crits, and this was my experience:
I tend to race 3.3w/kg, so I really should be in B grade. My first Beta Crit was in C grade, and somewhere along the race I got CoSed. Fair enough.
So my next Beta Crit race was a B grade. I got dropped after 1½ laps, finished last after a long solo ride.
My most recent Beta Crit race was another B grade. I got dropped again, after 1½ laps, but this time found two other riders behind me, and we sat together. I busted a gut to hang on to them (25th place was important to me!), and 500m later, I got a CoS. I felt that was a little unfair – the rest of the field had dropped me (and went on to lap me), while I was the only one being power limited.
But it’s only a game. And it’s in Beta mode. And I enjoyed the ride. I hope that the system gets worked on, and people end up racing in their correct grade – and have fun!
It has been my thought for quite a while that this, or a similar sytem, should be used instead of the fence on group rides. Rather than kick riders out of the ride just make them slower and slower until they drop back to the pack.