The story of Zwift’s rider leader fence (aka “The Fence”) is a bit messy. Created as a way to keep group rides together, the idea was that a holographic fence could be set to stay a certain number of seconds ahead of the ride leader, and if riders went past it (some call them flyers, I call them zinners) they would get removed from the ride after a certain amount of time.
It launched in March 2019, was embraced by many event leaders, and seemed to work quite nicely. Then the cracks started to show. Riders began complaining that they were getting booted from rides even though they were behind the fence, behaving nicely. Heck, I had it happen to me more than once! In February 2020 ride leaders were informed that Zwift was disabling the fence immediately, then in August 2020 the fence returned, but without zapping powers – it just displayed a stern message.
And that’s where things have stayed for the past 21 months.
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Jon’s Skunkworks
To the typical Zwifter it may have appeared as though Zwift had ceased working on mending the fence. But at ZwiftHQ, staffers were still trying to return it to its zinner-zapping glory.
It wasn’t an easy fix, though. In order for the fence to work seamlessly the game has to:
- Know the precise location of the rider leader
- Accurately place the fence a certain number of seconds ahead of the rider leader
- Know your precise location in relation to the fence
We often saw temporary issues at intersections, which wasn’t surprising. And Zwift’s Pack Dynamics 3.0 supposedly made rider locations much more precise – but that didn’t seem to be enough.
Eventually the problem made its way to game creator Jon Mayfield’s desk. (I imagine his custom-lit R&D station is located deep in the bowels of ZwiftHQ, surrounded by piles of torn up smart trainers and a rowing machine just begging to be used.)
Nobody knows Zwift’s inner workings like Jon. He created it, after all. And word is Jon and his team fixed the fence!
Zinner Zapper Now Available
The upgraded fence has been used in ~10 test events, and is now being made available to group ride organizers.
To enable the zapping fence you must request it via the standard event edit form.
(Note: Zwift says there are some issues in London and Yorkshire that will be addressed in an upcoming fix, so if your event is on these maps you may want to hold off on using “kick mode”.)
Currently just 48 upcoming events are zapping zinners. But I would guess this number will increase substantially once event organizers have regained trust in the fence.
See the full list of zapping events on ZwiftHacks >
Questions or Comments?
Share below!
Will be good and bad to have Darlene back in Sprintapalooza. Also DIRTy Mitten Neutral Roll-Out races!
Welcome back! Now leaders can go back to focusing on their “Group” rides and not begging flyers to come back every 30 seconds…
It’s probably too late to make this suggestion, but what if the “Zapping Fence” zapped a flyer back to the sweeper? That way no one is knocked out of a group ride all together but the urge to “fly” is removed.
I don’t think Zwift will ever move riders like that – messes with GPS/Strava data.
Then freeze them. Lock them in place until red beacon passed or if no red beacon, 120 seconds after yellow. Put a big cone on them for shame as main group rides past.
This sounds much like the keep together option (rubber banding)
Power them down to something really low like we do when we are dropping back to help sweep. When the red beacon catches them they can do “fence penance” by pushing a little air for the sweepers before they race off again. It might even convert a few Zinners into Zaints. heh.
But in my perfect perfect world it would but then I open my eyes
Not sure how this is different from the teleport feature, seems like an elegant solution and actually doesn’t keep flyers from stacking up miles and using more power if they so desire! Just wish the fence were universally available, about to start hosting an event where I know people will be problematic!
Throw ’em out… Why cater to the flyers??
I’d think that a more elegant solution would be just to remove the draft effect so that group doesn’t form. If that doesn’t work, slowly increase the drag resistance.
How about an increasingly bigger negative aero power up (head wind) the more time some one spends beyond the fence.
All interesting options, but it took Zwift almost 2-years to fix a simple “kick when ahead of Fence for X time”, imagine we’d all be using canes & walkers by the time they put any of those options in
As a ride leader who submitted feedback and watched the Event Leaders forum for … something, what has Zwift done to fix distances as they apply to the fence?
This was used in a ZZRC group ride on Sunday & it worked well. Kicked flyers after numerous warnings.
Thanks for the warning. I won’t be joining ZZRC rides
Great! The ride will be better! Thanks for letting us know it’s working.
I came up with a thought during your Ask Eric Anything ride today about the fences. We all know Zwift races start like gangbusters straight out of the starting pens. I propose that a fence be employed on races where the organizers want one, that would act like the commissar’s car at the beginning of big stage races. The race would start from the pens like always, but the peloton would form up behind the fence and soft pedal through the Lead-In section. Once the Start/Finish line is reached, the fence would speed up and fade into the distance, like the commissar’s car does. Then it’s every rider for themselves.
Oh, and instead of kicking someone out that busts the fence, just relegate them to the back of the peloton or maybe five seconds behind the fence.
It would be a fun way to replicate an outdoor race, for sure.
But do we really need it, if we’re able to pedal while sitting in the pens? I’d say “no”. No worth spending any dev time on. But that’s just my opinion.
Agree with Eric on this. Nothing would change, instead of a big sprint out of the starting pens, you’d get a big sprint once the fence disappears.
Interesting idea. I wonder if the “start sprint” just gets moved to when the fence disappears though.
I’m looking at it like the real-life races we see in Europe. Once the commissar’s car speeds up, the peloton usually ramps up the speed and you might even have a few brave souls try to form a breakaway.
I’ve read some of the other comments and there seems to be a mistaken belief I’m talking about all rides. I’m not talking about group rides, some that already use the fence.
I’m talking about races. Keep the peloton together through the neutral area (lead-in) and then let the fun begin when the flag drops.
And again, what you’re describing is what happens in a real race, so it adds flavor and verisimilitude and like that… There would be atmosphere to those warm-up moments, just as there is in life. Constrained by the commissar car, riders might banter a bit more as things began. Social stuff is, so I hear, a big part of Zwift’s edge.
The artificiality of those starts out of the gate in Zwift is exactly the opposite of all that. Furious peddling before the bike moves, to enter at sprint pace? That’s not just bad physics, it’s sort of a bad game if we assume we’re trying to imitate cycling.
I’m for this kind of thinking, even if it’s not necessarily a high-priority development.
This is a feature that was actually tried on Zwift years ago. But with rubberbanding (keep everyone together), but was also a difficult calculation problem like the fence. Maybe they will revisit it someday.
I think it’s a great idea for races. Just today I was in a C race and a guy sped off at 13+ w/kg!! It doesn’t matter that we are able to spin in pen, that’s not the way group races are raced in real life. The fence could be set at the upper limit of the category and once everybody has settled in (one minute could be enough) it goes off.
Question for all the ride leaders (from someone who’s never done a “please stay together group ride”): why do you care? How does it affect your ride if someone rides off ahead?
Depends on what you want from your group ride. Sometimes it matters if people stay together – other times it does not.
I lead Sprintapalooza – which really doesn’t work with people scattered around. It’s about sprinting as a pack, using the draft, etc.
Also, if groups get too spread out, everyone may not see everyone else’s messaging, because riders are too far away. Then messages/conversations get confusing.
Lastly: if you’re trying to hold a stated pace (and most group rides are), people flying off the front tend to speed things up, as other riders chase them. They mess up ride pacing, essentially.
I never understand why some join a group ride advertised at sub 2 w/kg for example, and then jerk off on the front like they’re going to win it. In principle its not a problem, but as you wrote above, it wrecks the advertised pace in most cases for those who actually want to join in. So I’m in favour of the fence toasting flyers as it will mean less unnecessary messages asking for the group to slow to pace. The last “Pack” event i joined was testing the fence and it was super harminious throughout the whole ride. So its an improvement to group rides imo.
The 1st reason is fine. The second reason is not a grouping problem. It’s a messaging problem. If people want to ride their indoor bikes while chatting with buddies online, and use zwift to do it, and use “groups” to collect “buddies” to chat with, Zwift should add more messaging options. Solved. The third one makes no sense to me. What is “pacing”? A speed value on a screen? It’s not a race so who cares about speed? Ride the watts you want. People are upset because they don’t have a bunch of graphics of riders on their screen while pedaling at constant power? I just don’t get it. I mean those graphics make sense if you are not riding at constant power in a big group. You can get some sense of chasing between groups, falling back, whatever, but just sitting at constant power? So what? How does it affect anyone a bit if some of those pictures of bicycle riders disappear? Why does that “disrespect” you as many say? Why would you want to hold back the exercise of other people just to pretend you’re with them when you aren’t? It just escapes me. I can get some very very weak rubber banding so you keep some people around to have some actual game play with, not just to ride constant power and have graphics of riders on your screen.
I lead a fairly low-paced ride (1.4 w/kg) which caters to a lot of beginner Zwifters. Flyers cause confusion because many beginners don’t understand that they should stay with the Yellow Beacon (despite repeated messaging), instead attempting to follow the flyers off the front. They then tire quickly, get “dropped” by the front group, and complain about the pace, all while I – the leader – have been going at the advertised pace the whole time. This creates a bad experience for those riders (which can put them off group rides or Zwift entirely), and unfairly gives a bad reputation to my group. All told, it damages the dynamic and enjoyment for many people, in what 95% of us intend to be a relaxed beginner ride.
Yup
I’m referring to races, not group rides.
You’re assuming that it’s the leaders who care. The only time I get bugged is when a group in formation buzzes my 1.2 w/kg ride while they lap the beacon. Otherwise, I frankly don’t care and I have in-ride activities to keep us busy. However, a number of riders do care and text or chat about about them. I’ll sometimes say to fuhgedaboudem.
I will say that I fully expect the fence to screw up ride culture for a while as riders post in-ride rants about the Fence, their ideas about the Fence, fliers, leader position, leader pace, group rides in general, and on and on. How do you know that, Paul? Been there; done that in the Pre-Fence, Fence 1.0, Fence Interregnum (you could look it up) and Fence 2.0 eras.
Oh, yes, and I will NOT increase the lead’s pace because somebody wants to get training in. Drop back and ride intervals with the sweeps.
Why does the general culture of Zwift include so much fast-boil indignation? I sort of feel it coming from both directions about this question.
Without ride dynamics like leaders, beacons, rubber banding, and fences, much of this game reminds me of how close human nature is to reacting within in a panicky ball of bait fish. That experience isn’t really like real-life cycling much at all, for me. YMMV, literally.
Hmm, I’ve found cycling in general has a lot of people that don’t get along well with others.
I don’t see fliers as a problem, so I see this as a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.
If you don’t like fliers, ignore them. Think about why fliers bother you, and you may find that it’s not really a rational thing.
Yep, that is one opinion. Other people can rationally have a different opinion from you. Think about that. Not everyone is exactly like. Everyone has their own experiences and preferences and likes and dislikes.
Some fliers disrupt the group ride by organizing the fliers in a different pace group ahead of the leader’s peloton – calling out positions contrary to that of the ride leader. You can’t ignore this as it causes confusion among riders in the group ride and defeats the purpose of the group staying together.
in the many group rides I participate, few do the exact pace i prefer. Sometimes i’m dropped, sometimes i’m in a group off the front, sometimes I ride solo.
I can see for novice riders the benefit of being stricter with the fence as they learn the nuances of riding in a blob, but myself will probably avoid group rides that don’t give me the freedom to ride at a pace that is desirable to me.
Many group rides have lots of riders. A blob of 40 vs a blob of 90 is different only in the spectical on the screen.
Agree. Instead of finding ways to unnecessarily “punish” fliers, Zwift would serve us better if it disciplined group leaders who can’t or won’t stick to the advertised pace.
I’ve lost count of the group rides I have had to bail out of after a mile or two because the pace is way too fast – even in group riders labelled “D”.
I accept there is a MAJOR problem with the way Zwift forces/allows leaders to advertise a pace – using w/kg. This is essentially meaningless when we are not given the pace-setters bodyweight.
If it’s too fast we get dropped and have to ride solo; now if it’s too slow, we get botted out of the ride. This needs more thought, Zwift.
I join group rides which advertise a set pace or w/kg to ride at the pace advertised. Why on earth do people join these rides (usually D or C level) and fly off the front? I can’t think of a single reason other than selfishness. Its extremely disrespectful and causes confusion for the person who is giving their time to be the beacon. If you don’t want to ride on a ride at an advertised pace…. Dont. Join. the. ride.
What about a back fence….to stop you falling to far behind rather than being dropped.
Could be helpful for group ride leaders.
Rubber band on the rear…applied at the leader or sweeps discretion?
in the many group rides I participate, few do the exact pace i prefer. Sometimes i’m dropped, sometimes i’m in a group off the front, sometimes I ride solo.
I can see for novice riders the benefit of being stricter with the fence as they learn the nuances of riding in a blob, but myself will probably avoid group rides that don’t give me the freedom to ride at a pace that is desirable to me.
Many group rides have lots of riders. A blob of 40 vs a blob of 90 is different only in the spectical on the screen.
rather than booting people; it should be like the pacers (which always work in keeping people-why? – because they are getting drops)
the fence should be there, and people get drops until they leave the fence, – no drops!
How about taking away XP and therefore levels and kit? I actually really like this one.
Some days you can’t find a ride that fits, or you just feel your oats and ride a ahead, like you would do in a real tour. So I’m no fan of the fence. Mist of my rides I see more ahead of the fence than behind. So clearly most riders don’t like the fence. Numbers of riders on each ride are getting smaller and smaller spread between too many Worlds and choices. You’re going to loose people with this unpopular fence crap.
It’s northern hemisphere summer, most of zwifts user base is riding outside, hence why you don’t see as many riders in zwift.
Not been a big concern for me now that we have so many pace bots to choose from I find the constant pang of chat annoying which is generally why i have such stuff muted
I like riding with the group rides for a change of pace. If I’m feeling frisky, I’ll drop back and help sweep; otherwise I’ll stick with the ride leader. Fence has been a non-issue for me only because I choose not to have it be an issue. I tend to ride specific group rides because that rider community is all about the experience and we never hear the ride leader talking about “flyers”. I’ve had the same experience outdoors as well. Riders on group rides jumping off the front, half-wheeling the group, sprinting for mystical green jerseys 🙂 etc. I understand the positions on both sides of the fence; one of the things I appreciate about Zwift is the freedom to pick our ride/world/experience, fence or no fence.
Reinforces riding with Pace Partners. I Hide Chat because of the ‘coaching’ by the ride leader to ‘return to the pack’ in Events. If I get zapped, oh well, I will know not to join that group again.
ohh no. Really hate that fence – no reason to blame flyers. In 50% of the rides after 10 minutes some riders get lost at the back. The leader slows down to keep the group together and help the sweeper to get back.
If some quick ones get off in the front and have fun, let them go. Who wants to stay with the leader and enjoy draft and riding in the group great. It’s all about having fun.
Good leades don’t need a fence and the group(s) in the ride are all happy afterwards.
Lots of generalizations here which don’t apply to all (or even most) rides on Zwift. In fact, I’d say your experience doesn’t correlate to mine at all – it’s been only rarely that I’ve seen a ride leader slow down after people get dropped in the first 10 minutes!
In my experience, experienced ride leaders keep the stated pace quite nicely, and if people fall off the back they are either left to themselves, or the sweepers work to help them.
“Good leades don’t need a fence” – I would submit that this is not always true. Depends on the course, the goals of the ride, and the people attending it.
Hi Eric,
let’s see, time will show, whether it makes sense or not. The ride I usally joined before used to have some 120 riders in average in summer. For the last weeks there are less than 80. Perhaps it is the weather, perhaps some more people are frustrated.
Ride on.
Markus
Oh goodness. I feel the Zwifting tent is big enough to allow all the dignity of their own experience. Most will choose to honor yellow, some will choose to not honor yellow, it’s all good. Why boot them?
Why not have the option to use ‘carrots’ rather than ‘sticks’ (fences)? Make the group leader act as a pacer and award drops point multipliers to those sticking close enough to the group lead. People can still attack the sprints if they want, then drop back to the main group again without risking being kicked (or the leader having to manage the fence around the sprints).
I don’t understand why riders obsess about some rider up the road. Just enjoy your ride with the leader and friends around you. Why worry about someone you don’t know and can’t see up front or even off the back. I don’t get it.
Because it blows the group up, which is inconsiderate to slower riders who are just trying to hang on and faster riders who joined the easy ride for some base miles and camaraderie. You learn this on day 1 riding outside. But I understand that those who mostly ride indoors and can escape the chiding and annoyed glances of others on the post-ride regroup may never learn this. Glad I could enlighten; people usually aren’t self-aware enough to ask.
30 years of riding training and racing here, so don’t assume. If myself and friends sign up for a 2.2-2.5w/kg ride Then we ride 2.2-2.5 with the beacon and many others. And we accomplished what we planned to do. But Some rider/s are off the front riding 3.0-3.5, this affects me, my friends and other riders in no way. We’re riding with the beacon as we planned to do…At 2.2-2.5w/kg. How come there is not the same angst for the rider that rides 2.0w/kg and not with the beacon and off the back. This need to control others I don’t understand. But from my experience, there’s always been some rider in the peloton barking at others trying to dictate what someone else is supposed to be doing in the race or ride. I always ignored this person too. I guess I don’t have the gene to make me want to control others. In my opinion the fence is stupid and annoying. Just curious, do you all drive 55 on the highway in the 55 speed limit zone. Hmmm 🤔
The reason why social group riders don’t want you on their ride is because your behavior harms the ride by stringing it out. The leader is trying to create a certain ride experience that you are not interested in. The ride is a gift from the leader, not an entitlement. The principled approach is either do the ride that’s offered or don’t join. For every flyer, there are many people behind you who want you gone. You have lots of options – use a TT bike or slow equipment, do a different ride, etc. I don’t always feel social, so I use pace partners, free rides, fundos, etc where my desire to smash it doesn’t amount to peeing in the pool. Today I did a social ride on the Zwift steel bike so it would be a little harder.
Maybe You’re assuming I’m a flyer. I ride with the leader. The yellow beacon. I really don’t worry about someone up the road. You all are letting some dot up the road get in your head. I agree with what you say about making it harder if need be for yourself. I guess I’m just able to not get obsessed what someone else is doing. Someone driving it too hard only bothers me if I’m racing with sandbaggers.
Sorry I misunderstood you. You should do fine with the fence. I ride with the leader and fences haven’t bothered me. I prefer that the social rides stick to the advertised pace, and the fence helps do that without a lot of comments from the leader trying to herd cats into the blob. To me that’s an improvement.
The problem with your comment is that you are deciding why other people have a problem with it (and then insulting them) when you are not correct. Try again buddy.
Why are you obsessing over what sandbaggers are doing? Just concentrate on your race and improving yourself, why does that little dot ahead of you bother you so much? It’s just more motivation. If you don’t like it get faster!
Great news. Flyers could help as sweeps if they weren’t so focused on being ahead of the group. Who would ride like that in real life???
I used to have two subscriptions: to TrainerRoad for training (far superior to what offered by Zwift in this area), and Zwift for fun. With the need to constantly control my pace, under the fear of getting booted from a ride for going over the fence momentarily during a short climb (like it happened this morning), for me Zwift has stopped being a place where I can relax. So today I cancelled my subscription. YMMV.
I’m not being sarcastic when I say that you made the principled choice: social rides weren’t for you so you stopped joining them by cancelling. Your departure won’t disrupt social rides. Only Zwift cares about subscribers – social riders care more about flyers.
“Kick mode” seems like a method for Zwift to have fewer subscriptions.
is the Friday sprintapalooza for West coast folks like me shut down? Haven’t seen it for a few weeks. I see the 2:25 AM one for the east coast folks, but not the west coast (am I missing it?
Good question for the Zwift forum or Zwift Riders FB group
As a new ride leader I have requested the Fence option in my events. How do you get the Fence Controls to appear on the screen? Is there a F key you use? What is the secret?