Last week’s big Zwift update included several new “hidden” features which will be tested in private events in the coming weeks. One exciting feature already being tested is called the “Ride Leader Fence”. Here’s what we know about it…
Why a Fence?
One common complaint from social ride leaders and participants is fliers. Those pesky riders who join a group ride which states a specific pace, then proceed to drill it off the front and never ride with the pack.
Nobody knows why fliers do this. Obviously, they don’t care about keeping the ride together. Perhaps they are new cyclists and they don’t even realize it’s a big party foul. Perhaps they’re proud sociopaths who want to show everyone how strong they are.
Regardless of the reason, fliers never improve a group ride, and ride leaders have been asking for features to control them for a long time.
How It Works
When enabled, the beta fence feature puts a semi-opaque “fence” a certain number of seconds ahead of the ride leader (beacon). The number of seconds is configurable.
Clearly, Zwift has put some real thought into this feature even in its early stages. As riders get closer to the “fence” it becomes more visible, meaning if you’re sticking with the ride leader the fence is hard to see or perhaps completely invisible. Start getting too close, though, and it is visible as a warning.
If you ride through the fence then it’s quite visible behind you, and you receive a message stating you need to go back inside the fence or you will be auto-booted from the ride. The message is very clear: “Return to the group to stay in this event, or keep riding to quit this event.”
As a ride leader myself, this all makes great sense. It doesn’t force ride leaders to manually boot fliers, but cleans them off of the ride if they choose to stay off the front. This should also “train” habitual fliers to stop joining group rides when they don’t want to ride at the planned pace.
See It In Action
Watch Martin Björgvik’s recording of yesterday’s test of this feature, led by Zwift staffer Wes Salmon:
When?
Zwift is only testing this feature among other ride leaders at this time, to see if it’s even worth incorporating in the live game. So it’s possible this feature will never see live action. It’s also possible we may see it live in the near future. Who knows?
Your Thoughts
What do you think of this feature? Is it needed? Does it function in the best possible way? Comment below!
The way I read it nothing would stop a group getting ahead with their own little blob and continuing to ride together like that. The only difference is that they would be booted from the event. Which makes sense to me and you don’t end up with a 2.5w/kg group ride ending with a bunch of people averaging 3.5w/kg in the results.
Seems like an excellent idea. Should cut the message traffic by about 50% too lol
Absolutely Fantastic idea!!! Finally a way to deal with the fliers and not disrupt the people that want to join a group ride and… shocker, ride as a group and follow the rules of the group.
Only way to improve this idea might be to make some kind of a “Blue Shell” to track down fliers.
I like the idea in theory – but there’s a couple instances when it might not be ideal. If the leader drops back for some reason, this could dissolved the whole ride.
This happened today while I was leading – chain popped off, but then I caught up with the group two minutes later. I wouldn’t want the whole group dissolved – and they did slow down for me.
I guess this would just be a settings tweak. I’d also love the ability to hand the beacon off to someone in the ride (temporarily or for the rest of the ride).
Also – it is super annoying to see group’s messages when you’re not part of the ride. I think the only thing I see on chat anymore is people telling the group to slow down.
Bad idea. Yes flyers are annoying, but better to use a carrot than a stick. How about this—award XP points for all those who finish a ride within the stated parameters, for example if the ride is 1.5-2.0 w/k, give 500 XP points to those that finish in that range. Or use a sliding scale. Could also be based on how close one finishes to the leader. The fence seems too heavy handed. Flyers are annoying but don’t have that much affect on me in the middle, except for causing the equally annoying requests to slow down.
I do really appreciate these efforts to make the game better, thanks.
So are we going to have a gate at the back to bin off people who are struggling then we can all sit in our little envelope and tell each other how good it is without them.
I rode GGCC last night and no one mentioned fliers and guess what? Great ride.
Its only a problem if you make it one. Rotate leaders then they wouldnt think they owned the place, maybe.
Agreed – better leader rotation would be nice.
I’m in favor of the “fence.” I enjoy and very much appreciate the time and effort given by others to lead a structured training ride. I lead group rides on the real roads. Flyers are not welcome. Those who join the advertised pace ride and fall off, caveat emptor.
I support the fence concept. I also admit to being an occasional flier. Here’s my reasoning for flying. I’m a “tweener” who is somewhere between a low end ‘B’ and high end ‘C’ level rider. I’ll often join a big ‘C’ level group ride get near the front and depending how strong I feel either try to hang with the flier group or stay back with main group. Having the game automatically “prune” the flier group makes sense, unless of course you can’t keep up with the fliers and want to drop back with the pack. I guess if you become a flier you should probably lose that option. One last suggestion, the fence needs to expand on hills since people get pretty spread out during the climbs and then try regroup on the decent.
Maybe an option to switch groups mid-ride? If you can hang with the B group, switch up mid-ride. If you’re feeling toast, you can take it easy and switch down to C (or some days D 🙂 )
Yep, won’t have the Bacon barking over the message board, hence why I don’t ride in those groups.
However who really cares if there is fliers let them ride off. Just like an IRL bunch if you get some idiots that surge ahead do you start yelling at them to come back, no you just let them go.
Yep, they even seem to drag the leaders to high on many rides.
Here is an idea for this feature:
Use two force fields (front and behind).
The force field 30 seconds in front of the
ride leader is not passable by any rider within the group event (this acts as a wall).
A benefit to this is that it will help for down hill sections where a person may coast too far off the front of the group (example: down a mountain).
Zwift has not included the ability to apply a brake down a steep climb yet.
Using brakes in Zwift (like we do in real life) would be a nice feature to have…. Who rides a bicycle without brakes??? …. Hum ???
The force field 30 seconds behind the
ride leader acts like a rubber band and prevents
riders from being dropped off the back.
However, at any time during the ride, if a
rider stops pedaling for “X” amount of
seconds, then the rubber band effect stops and the rider is dropped and ejected from the group event.
They already have something like this in place currently for certain activities, but perhaps they could improve on that original idea by having a “safe window area” (30 seconds in front and 30 seconds behind the ride leader) where a person will pedal to maintain their own pace within that safe window area around the ride leader. However, a rider cannot go too far off the front, or go too far off the back from the ride leader.
This “force field” feature could be an “optional” feature that a ride leader can set up in advance when creating a group ride (if the ride leader chooses to use that feature during their event). This may help to keep the pack together due to riders from all different backgrounds and fitness levels who want to enjoy and experience a group ride together.
P.S.
It would be nice id Zwift applied a feature such as brakes on the bicycle. What if somebody gets ejected from a group ride because they are too far in front and has no way to slow down? (imagine the drafting/wind effect down a mountain)…. I guess that you could hit the “U-Turn” button in all worlds (except Richmond).
Example:
I would like to be able to press and hold the “B”
button on my computer (acting as a brake) that starts to slow my bicycle down to a complete stop (over the distance of “X” amount of feet based on the current speed in game).
The brakes would be applied gently for as long as I press and hold that button…..If I have not come to a complete stop, I release the button and the brakes are no longer active.
Same as riding a bicycle outdoors.
Having the brake feature would come in handy and give more control in many situations.
Looks awesome and would be a great addition, a couple of thoughts (a) colour will be important depending upon tie of day and weather conditions what works on Watopia may not in London, and (b) on a group ride yesterday and leader dropped ANT+ connection dropped back 20-25 sec and slowly regained the group 15-20 mins into ride….not sure how this would work be better to be able to turn off the ‘kick-out’ feature but still see the fence.
I think people over-react to “flyers” and should take a deep breath. I also think people are distorting real world group ride etiquette when trying to apply it to big Zwift group rides. While I agree it’s terrible form to intentionally attack off the front of a controlled group ride, I don’t have any issue when a natural split occurs in a large group of riders (whether outside or in Zwift).
I was in a Zwift group ride on Sunday that split early. The front was riding well within the wattage range, but the main pack kept slowing for dropped riders (which is nice to a point, but the leader needs to eventually let them drop). The main pack still had well over 100 riders and the front group had 50+ and the groups finished separately. With groups that size, (real life or Zwift), splits tend to happen and it shouldn’t be a big deal. The good ride leaders on Zwift don’t harp on flyers or splits, just a couple reminders not to chase and that’s that.
I’m often a ride leader in real life and have a lot of experience dealing with a-holes that don’t know how to play nice on an organized ride. The best approach is to give them a friendly reminder or 2 about how we ride and then just ignore them if they persist. It’s just not worth the energy to fight it and the rest of us are going to have fun riding our bikes.
My concern with the “fence” is that it seems like a slippery slope that is a step further from real world riding and trying to force people to ride together in one big happy group. If you want to do that, just make the draft so sticky that nobody can go off the front and nobody can get dropped. It just seems like a general “softening” of Zwift to make sure nobody gets their feelings hurt (like when they removed the placement info in Tour Du Zwift).
Keep in mind that this is all coming from a guy who hates the “gamification” aspect of Zwift and I wish it didn’t have power ups, levels, sweat drops, etc. I know I’m in the minority, but I wish they’d just keep Zwift as true to real life as possible.
If they implement this feature, I can see some positives, but I just hope it it isn’t the start of more stuff like this.
Yes, an excellent idea!
I think it’s a great idea. I really feel sorry for all those ride leaders who have to focus mainly on keeping the group together. I can imagine there is not much fun in such ride. It would surely make ride real tempo more compareble to planned tempo – I was dropped few times from a ride described as 2,5-3W cause everyone was chasing front group riding over 3,5W. So generaly I think the idea is great. I have one thought on it – not sure if 30sec is enough time to get back to the group. In many rides there are sprints at the end of each lap – leader usualy stays with the group and some while those who want to sprint – do it. It creates wide gaps which are reduced after sprint regroup – not sure if 30sec is enough time to get back to the group for those who take part in a sprint.
Looks interesting. As a possible alternative could fliers be hit with additional drag, so the further off the front they go, the more power they need to stay there?
i don’t really see this as a way to “force people to ride together in one big happy group”, but rather a way to keep a group ride a group ride. if you join a group ride and decide it’s not for you, no big deal. take off the front and go enjoy your ride. who cares if you get booted from the group ride that you’re not participating in anyway?
As a ride leader, I’ve found two positive approaches which work better at keeping the group together than constant harping at fliers. First, persistent compliments about how well folks are keeping the group together and helping each other. Second, instruction about how to re-form when natural breaks occur at places like hard climbs and sprints. EG, the KOM followed by a sprint on Reverse Knickerbocker. Letting people know it’s OK to crush those places, and then loiter, soft pedal, or stop afterwards to allow a re-group. Those who want to be a part of a group will comply; those who don’t aren’t any good to us anyway. A fence, if instituted, should be optional not mandatory for a group ride.
Flyers don’t really bother me. But how about when you stay too far off the front for too long, you get teleported to a spot 1 or 2 minutes off the back? T
hen the flyers will help pull the slower riders back to the bunch
Seems to be a good idea! As long as the creator will be able to choose to use (and amend) this feature for the certain event, I definitely would be fine with it.
Another possibility would be to make the fence some kind of “sticky”, increasing power demand the further you ride into it, away from the leader (to a certain amount until you may receive the same message as described in the article). This way, everyone could have the workout they like, but the group may stay a bit more together so all may profit (more) from drafting.
The step-up would be, similarly to Scott’s “rubber band”, to make the slower riders profit from the faster riders’ power – maybe even like some kind of “power transfer” which, on the other hand, might be quite hard to implement in the game…
I also like David’s idea of re-spawning faster riders back in the field. Woooosh… 🙂
How about instead of a ‘fence’ the ride leader is able to set some sort of invisible barrier at some time interval ahead of the beacon at which point the rider(s) would get a ‘puncture’ (announced prominently on the screen). The rider(s) could still ride with the puncture, but the required power output would be higher. If/when the rider gets back to the ‘team car’ (effectively somewhere 10 to 30 seconds behind the beacon) their wheel is ‘replaced’ and they can continue on their way. This could happen repeatedly in a ride, should the rider pass the beacon and reach the time fence again.
Now THAT, is creative. Best alternative yet. Ha ha.
This is probably a good thing to keep the ride leaders and others from their constant whining about flyers. By far that is the worst thing about group rides.
Message traffic can be zero if the fence idea is ditched and a solution based on resistance is applied. Just increase the resistance to any flier to 800-1000W like in ERG mode until he returns back to the group. Similarly, decrease the resistance to people in grupetto.
I continue to be mystified at the harm riding off the front causes. What is the difference between leading a ride of 30 and leading a ride of 50 with 20 off the front? If 100 riders break into 4 groups of 25 with the beacon at the back, doesn’t that just mean that everyone is getting the ride they want? There are no safety issues so this must all be a question of VR etiquette I’m having trouble grasping. I can easily imagine a different ethic having evolved where the beacon is an option but sub-groups can form in front or behind. How about a D ride with fliers welcome? The beacon rides at maybe 1.8 but if you find a group in your zone, stick with them.
This was talked about at the latest Zwift podcast – an example of how it could be good: For slower rides, there’s a lot of frustration that a lot of the group is riding way above the advertised pace. So if you signed up for a 2.0 ride, but 90% of the people are riding at 3.0 – that can create some frustration. From what I understand, this optional tool is especially for those type of rides where they want to really enforce the advertised pace. I think a lot of rides are fine without it, but it could be a good option in the right circumstances.
For Andrew Hall: I wouldn’t say it’s VR etiquette so much as just general ride etiquette, VR or IRL. If you don’t want to do the specified pace of the group ride, then just don’t do the group ride. Just like IRL, having people constantly breaking up the group and doing their own thing is annoying and can disrupt what the group leader is trying to accomplish. So, while there is no real ‘harm’ done (which is also the case IRL), it’s just sort of a disrespectful thing. This is my opinion, of course, and it’s clear from the comments that there are people who feel very differently on the topic. My feeling, though, is that the if the ride is geared toward a certain type of rider/pace and if you don’t want to do that, then find one of the many other events on Zwift that better fits with what you want to do, or just go on your own ride.
Couldn’t agree with you more.
I think that’s a great idea, not so much from a standpoint of slowing down “fliers”- but more from a ride leader’s standpoint. I hope the fence feature will encourage ride leaders to be more relaxed about people going off the front.
I led rides in Zwift for over 2 years, and my approach has always been chill, meaning, I would warn riders about the pace and ask them to stay with the group once (and only once), and then not say anything else after that. In my experience, “yelling” at the ones not respecting the pace makes for an annoying ride overall, so I would just engage with the group following the pace and make it a positive experience. It’s no fun when the ride leader gets all stressed out the whole time about keeping people together.
A great idea… especially the “you have 30 seconds to get back into fold”… it gives fliers plenty of time to rejoin (but also the option to break free if they really feel held back by the pace of the group).
I don’t like the idea of a ‘back fence’…. I occasionally get power dropouts and fall behind group. The challenge or rejoining the group is a good motivator for extra effort.
There will allways be fliers, its the nature of the beast. Why spoil everyones ride by moaning about them the whole ride. Who hasn’t done it? Ive seen some of zwifts most popular leaders fly off when its not thier ride. “Ride leader tools” ride leader fools more like. Heres a rule, Rule No.5
Riding in a group is the great thing about zwift, but I don’t understand why there is so much anxiety when rides break into groups of different speeds. I often can’t find a ride at the speed at which I am comfortable at the time I have available, so I join a ride that is available at a different speed . Sometimes it is just fine, but very often I find a group that is happier riding at a speed I am more comfortable. If I have gotten dropped, it is a group riding slower than the leader, and other times it is a group that is riding faster than the leader. Once the group has separated, I don’t understand why people happily riding with the ride leader care so much?
Any new news on the ‘Fence’ and when it will be out of Beta test?
+1 any update on the leader fence?
I’ve asked HQ but have yet to hear back.