You may have seen the #doubledraft tag on various races and group rides in recent months. It was featured prominently in the Zwift Aussie Crit series just a few months ago, and recently we’ve been seeing it all over the place. In fact, if I search Zwift events via ZwiftHacks right now, I see 112 upcoming events using #doubledraft!
Drafting is a key part of bike racing, both indoors and out. Therefore, it’s a big deal when Zwift modifies the way drafting works. This post digs deeper into how double draft works, and the ways it may affect races.
What is Double Draft? How Does It Work?
I asked ZwiftHQ this very question. Game designer Jordan Rapp got back to me with some very specific details that explain exactly what is going on. He said:
Double draft essentially just turns on the “draft van” power up for all riders, all the time. In a double-draft event, then the draft van actually makes things easier than they would be. The “draft van” power-up is actually less of a boost – nothing like the feather or aero boost – and more just bringing the draft benefit more in line with real world physics. Given that drag is – aerodynamically speaking – a cubic function, it’s not really as simple as saying the draft benefit is doubled (or halved); so in that sense, double-draft isn’t precisely a 2x (or 1/2x) multiplier to the drag. That’s important to note. It’s a more complex equation because of the nature of aerodynamic drag.
But basically, turning on double draft made the Zwift race more like an “IRL” race, which makes tactics and race savvy more important. In the simplest terms, “regular” Zwift operates on a “half-draft” model; so double draft isn’t really doubling the benefit; it’s just reducing the penalty we impose to 0.
When I’ve asked ZwiftHQ in the past, I’ve been told that the draft van powerup (see our Guide to Powerups) increases the draft effect you are experiencing by 50%. But it appears that this may not be exactly correct anymore, based on Jordan’s response above. Regardless, the important takeaway here is that double draft mode is meant to mimic real-world draft physics, whereas the “standard” Zwift draft only gives you a portion of the typical IRL drafting benefit.
What Does It Mean for Races?
The organizers of KISS Zwift races (arguably the top “race organizers” on Zwift) recently chose to adopt the doubledraft in all their races. To explain their reasoning, they posted the following to Zwift Riders on Facebook.
We are excited to take the tried-and-true Zwift racing stimulus to the next level on an ongoing basis for all KISS races. Working closely with Zwift HQ, we will use an alternative Zwift draft (Draft 2.0, TruDraft, Full Draft) effect to bring Zwift racing even closer to the real life experience.
When the dev team originally set up the drafting physics in Zwift, they actually ratcheted down the benefit that you’d get in the real world behind a rider of a given size. The decision was made to scale back drafting for a few reasons:
- One is that there’s no ability to position one’s avatar left and right on the road. And there’s no braking. So the ability to really fine tune your position is a challenge.
- The main reason is that most people riding indoors are doing so because they want a quality workout. Picture yourself in the Tour de France. The peloton is moving in excess of 50 kph with most riders sitting in the draft at less than 200 watts. That’s great on the road if you have to ride 3,000km. But if you’re trying to make the most of an hour on the trainer, it’s not ideal.
Racers still want a quality workout from a Zwift race, but not to the detriment of the intense mental stimulus Zwift racing has to offer. Attacks mid-race are hard to justify if rolling in the bunch only offers Zone 3 or Zone 4 for recovery. Ouch. Breakaways, one of the best features of real life racing, are few and far between. Rolling courses, mountainous courses, and flat courses almost always come down to who has the most w/kg in the finishing sprint. This is the Zwift racing we all know and love, but it’s about to get better.
Let’s look at breakaway riding as an example. Strong riders who are working less in the main group will have more reserve energy to attack the group. Attacking power is not equal among all racers and thus the likelihood of an attack sticking is increased. Once established that breakaway group also benefits from Draft 2.0 and therefore will have actual respite. This recovery is converted into more power to drive and extend the breakaway gap. It opens up more options giving riders more energy to work with. Are you the Mark Cavendish in the chasing peloton waiting for the bunch kick? It will only come back if you can convince the Tony Martin in the group to pull on the front to bring back the breakaway move. More variables and opportunities. Not less. We hope this will lead to increased tactics, added teamwork, and fresh strategic opportunities.
Race commentator extraordinaire Nathan Guerra likes the double draft, and had this to say about it:
Riders who are working less in the main group who are stronger than others will have more to give to get away. Everyone’s “more to give” is not equal and breaks will get away easier. Then once established that group also has more draft… not just the main group behind and therefore will have actual respite and then power to give to form and extend the break. It opens up more options giving riders more energy to work with. More variables and opportunities. Not less.
KISS organizers are seeking input from racers on what they think of the new drafting setup. I am hopeful that the effect of double draft on Zwift racing will be exactly as described by KISS and Nathan above, letting riders rest more in the peloton, then make strong attacks which stick.
I do think this will make it very difficult for a lone breakaway to stick, given that the peloton will probably be rolling along even faster than it does in standard draft mode. But if a small group of riders can jump off the front and benefit from doubledraft, things could get interesting indeed.
My guess is that it will take a little while for racers to modify their strategy to work with double draft physics. Instead of sitting in and holding on for the final sprint, some racers will learn to sit in then attack as a breakaway group. Teamwork will come into play, which is a very good thing. And all of this should make Zwift racing more exciting and interesting, and that’s also a very good thing.
A Better Name
As KISS alluded to in their post, Zwift may need a better name than “double draft” for this new draft mode, since calling it “double” is misleading. I suggest TrueDraft or FullDraft. Because that’s what it is!
Your Thoughts?
Have you tried racing in double draft mode? What did you think? Share your feedback below!
Re your comment about ‘lone breakaway’ riders surviving, it rarely happens IRL anyway
I always use the TT bike for its ‘no draft’ model because when i ride i hate when i see my avatar who ‘jumps’ from a draft to another draft (and with worlds like NYC with 4000 riders it happens a lot of times). I think the double-draft (i agree that the name has to be changed with fulldraft) is a good idea for races to make them feel more realistics.
I also suggest who want to ride without interaction from other zwifters to use TT bike and i hope in the marketplace there will be more TT to choose.
Another option could be a ‘button’ to disable draft such as in workout mode.
So, is the van draft power up obsolete during the double draft races or does it provide a boost to the double draft also?
It will still give you some additional draft, but not as much as before (in percentage terms)
Agreed for OutsideDraft
Im all for doble draft / full draft. Current draft is totally killing me on flats and descents as I’m a light rider.
Interesting! I’d seen the #doubledraft in some events but could not track down exactly what that meant! Will this mean that the “blob” of a big group may just hammer along so fast that’s it’s impossible for anyone to break away from it?
That, sir, is the million dollar question. So far it seems this is the case, but it could be that over time racers change their strategy/style to work better with the double draft physics…
I think the problem is that in real life, riders a part of a functional team. Teams have breakaway riders, sprinters, domestiques etc. It isn’t in a lot of teams’ interests to hammer along in the peleton full speed depending on their tactics. On zwift, however, it’s every rider for themself, for the most part.
I think it means races will break apart on hills, but dropped riders will have an opportunity to bridge back up if they get into a group.
Which — is exactly what happens in IRL. And was my expectation when buying a smart trainer.
This is really interesting and helpful. I’m a relatively new Zwifter and I was curious why the draft effect felt so weak. It seems to me like IRL that one should be able to avoid the draft effect if you want to maintain a certain pace/effort, but real recovery in a draft males racing more interesting and 4 hour + long rides more doable
Eric, yes, it’s interesting how the blob effect will develop…but moreover to me the million dollar question is: With the blob being the main concern over the last years…why does Zwift not change the draft effect so that it decreases more the bigger a group gets.
For example normal draft progression until 10 riders (or whatever number) and then only very minimal (and lesser and lesser) drafting gains for each additionl rider in group.
I never understood how blob was a problem or concern. Non-selective, flat, short race courses are to blame, not drafting. Riders grouped in tight fitness categories will almost always stay together in such events. Simple as that. The problem is not a blob. Otherwise we could just do more mass start time trials, which are cool and are not affected by drafting at all.
The blob is not the problem, it’s the solution. It’s the reason we roadies ride. Otherwise we would be triathletes or TT specialists (strange people). I love the multiplayer, group riding aspect of Zwift and am amazed at how the rider behaviours mimic real life – I even had an argument with another rider last week about whether we work together, or not, when we got stuck between 2 groups on a 68km race.
It’s good to see Zwift tinkering with the algorithm. If it enhances the psychological experience of racing, not just the workout, it will be more engaging.
This solution would only benefit triathletes or TT-riders, and if they dont want to use draft they should not enter a race event. If Zwift wants to reach a higher level of realisme, then the double draft should only be part of larger groups as in real life. A small break have a smaller draft in real life and being in a larger group gives a bigger draft. So the double draft is a great add on, but should not work if you are 2 riders in a break away. But for the game on Zwift this could give a new dimension to riders trying to break away, and for the love of the game that is great.
As a triathlete i like to trian in zwift without draft effect so for me only the TT bike for all my rides. if i want to race a change my bike with one of the draft-frindly ones. So no problem…until the leave bikes that cannot draft. Hope in the marketplace there will be other tt bikes…all without draft
I’m older and have to ride ‘cunning’ so the Double Draft should be helpful to me. However, it will be interesting to see how it changes race tactics. My experience riding Masters IRL is that breakaways that stick are few (outside A grade). The draft advantages IRL are so great that it really needs a combination hills, cross winds and a winding course for a breakaway to work. Zwift lacks winds and the chasers can see the gap in seconds to the breakaway, so the opportunity is to breakaway on the hills and hope that the individual chasers are too self-interested to sacrifice themselves for the good of the group (ie just like IRL)
I heard of Double Draft but didn’t know what it was. I’ll will be checking out races using it.
Draft 2.0 as a name maybe?
I’m curious what this will do to the lap times in general. Will we see a lot of old records and strava KOM’s being broken in the coming weeks? Last week I was in a short and explosive race where for the first time I could fight my way back to the bunch after a drop on a slightly to long climb. maybe that’s what the double draft does?
Also in the past, I had these races where I was slingshot from the back of the bunch to the front and then back again. This continued until I was exhausted from the HIIT nature of such a ride and got dropped. I haven’t had this for a while and maybe that’s also due to the new draft because I think that behavior was a result of bad draft simulation in combination with maybe latency over the internet.
IMO having ridden a ‘double draft’ event my feeling is it works well and is more like IRL. I believe @Double Draft’ should be the default for every event (especially races), and maybe offer ‘half draft’ as an option if folks really want it this way (like having a TT bike with no draft is an option).
Why not make everything in Zwift as close to IRL as possible (I know weather conditions are never going to be easy to replicate!), and if a user want’s to do something ‘tougher’, give them an option.
if you want as close to irl then all non smart direct drive trainers should be banned!! IMO this is a bigger problem than debating double draft
Why?
Wait, so is this doubledraft just on all the time now on zwift? And if I go in a race how do I know if it’s on or not?
No, just some. Look for the #doubledraft tag in the event details.
Not loving the change, but I understand why they are doing it. Zwift racing before the double draft was great fun, but also a crazy-good workout because there is very little soft pedaling. I would often end an hour-long race with average power close to my threshold power. That’s not at all realistic when I’m sitting in the pack much of the time, but you still have lots of tactics in play with the old “half” draft.
I seriously doubt this change will decrease the number of sprint finishes because you’ll have less people getting dropped and more power in the group to chase down breaks. Most of the races I do (prior to DD) would end with a group of less than 10 riders fighting for the podium. That’s a break away in my mind when the pack has been dropped. You are still watching the gap to the groups behind and using all the tactics of being in a group off the front (wanting to rest for finish sprint, but not wanting to get caught, etc.).
You might see more break attempts with the fresher legs with double draft, but with lots of fresh legs to chase stuff down also. I suspect it will be like a Cat 4 race where everything is shut down immediately unless it’s a long climb. I like the “half” draft model where everyone is somewhat cooked from any hard effort and you attack when everyone is already hurting. A break has a much better chance of staying away when there aren’t a bunch of fresh legs to chase. So, the new double draft will certainly make the racing more realistic, which means less breaks and more bunch finishes.
If you are a sprinter, you are loving this change. If you are a break away person, I don’t see how this change will help you. Also, it you want a good workout while racing, your only option on a flat course will be to “race stupid” and waste a bunch of energy by attacking constantly or sitting on the front (which can be fun, but sucks for results).
Thanks for the post, Eric, I have been enjoying your blog posts.
I am a seasoned IRL USAC racer and I am relatively new to Zwift racing with nine races on my resume none of them Full Draft. I did try a KISS Full Draft race today, but my power dropped out after about ten minutes, so I got the drop. I have enjoyed Zwift racing, but I am in agreement with the IRL racers out there, that it could be improved.
Here are my thoughts:
1. Full Draft is a must
2. Freewheeling needs to be added, auto brake sucks
3. Some sort of forced slow down into the corners that increases the farther back you are
If these three things were implemented, I think strategy would increase.
Mark McNees, I’m with you. Fully agree with your points.
I love the new worlds that the Zwift development team are creating but I want to see the algorithm further developed. It’s the interaction with other riders/racers that keeps me coming back to Zwift, even when the weather is fine here in Australia.
Some of these, such as double draft and real cornering could be options available to the event organisers until Zwift full understands the impact on the experience – I see that WBR have suspended the use of double drafting in their events until Zwift fix a problem with the speeds triggering the ‘cone of shame’ for some A graders.
As the popularity of events on Zwift continues to grow, I think they need a bit more development focus on the algorithm. In the meantime, I will continue to take those corners like a pro.
I like it. I think I did two races with it. ON the first one I was not even aware od DD but I clearly notice a change. The closer the overall Zwift experience is with IRL the better in my opinion. Now If they only could improve on the response time between power applied to pedal and seen in the game…
Thanks for weighing in, Paul. Being new to Zwift racing, I don’t know what the ‘cone of shame’ is could you explain?
After a little more thought and reading on the subject, I think some of the resistance to making racing more like RL is from people who want to use the races as FTP training, a workout, or a group ride. You see comments like, “I like the races the way they are because it is like a hard group ride near or at my FTP.” The only problem with riding at or near FTP for an hour does not prepare you for a RL race, unless you are a triathlete.
I hope Zwift will commit to making races more like IRL and people who want an FTP workout can find that in the group rides.
Mark – see an explanation of the ‘cone of shame’ at the link below. I have never had it myself as I have a smart trainer and I’m not that strong. It seems to have been an issue for ZP riders (ie on rollers) but I haven’t seen it in months as more riders move to smart trainers.
https://kb.zwiftriders.com/riders-letters-and-symbols
I agree that people comment on the ‘quality’ of the workout as an argument against DD, and Zwift have also expressed concerns about its potential impact. To maximise the pain of the workout I have seen TT bikes in group races so these guys are getting no drafting effect – pretty hardcore. But as you note, it is a different kind of of training, and I have seen some very fit people been blown out the back of groups IRL as they weren’t used to the drafting/surging behaviour of bunch racing.
At the moment I am using the filter function Zwift Hacks site (link below) to find Zwift races tagged as double draft.
https://zwifthacks.com/app/events/
Thanks for the info, Paul, very helpful.
I did a WBR 2 Lap Astoria Line race this evening and it was the closest I’ve experience to a IRL race (I race in Florida and Georgia), primarily because of the rolling nature of the course. It seemed like the short climbs simulated “attacks” and made it less like a group TT.
If you have a power meter, use that as the source of power for zwift instead of your smart trainer. For me, this solved the response time issue. Zwift will continue to control your trainer resistance, so it does not affect the riding dynamics. I think the delay is actually a function of the smart trainers, not Zwift. Response time using a power meter is basically instantaneous.
I do control power with a stages powermeter. Far from instantaneous. 3-4 sec lag
Delay is caused by both Zwift avatar inertia and potential device lag. @FIlipe Alberto, Stages is pretty laggy for a power meter. It has hefty 2 second lag.
Do you have data/knowledge how other powermeters lag? Avatar inertia should be managed by a lag between avatar speed and power input from pedals. Power input should show on the screen immediately.
I only compared it directly to Quarq Dzero and it reacts visibly faster than Stages.
My powertap hubs seem to be instantaneous (or close enough that I don’t see any lag). When you pedal harder, you immediately see the power number increase on the screen in Zwift.
You might also double-check your game settings. There is an option to display 3 second average power or instantaneous power. If you set it to 3 second average, you will see a lag/smoothing effect between real-time power and what is displayed.
I do have the smoothing, but even when I turn it off I start pedal from a stop and it takes a few seconds for the avatar to start riding the bike, the power display also lags even without the smoothing. Thanks for sharing information on the power meter make.
DO NOT LIKE!!! If you are on a group ride and fall off the back by just 1 meter, you have to literally double the pace to get back in the group. If Zwift moves you to the outside (which it always seems to do to me) you have to go about 1.5w/kg harder to keep up until it finally decides to slot you back in. I should not have to ride at 6.0 w/kg to catch onto a “C” group ride!! I’m sure if I compared my files to the W 1/2/3 road races the power profile would be almost the same on some of the C rides now! If I wanted to do a race simulation, I’d join a race, not a mid-tier group ride!
Hi, Melissa. I feel your pain on the “getting moved to the outside” but I don’t think that is a Full Draft issue more a programing issue. They just need to widen the draft effect to the whole road and that issue would be solved. As for group ride vs. race, I was getting a little confused if you were referring to IRL or Zwift. Most group rides on Zwift are not Full Draft, as for racing, until Zwift introduces freewheeling and adds progressive slowing for the group in corners the races will be more like TTTs with the highest FTP winning the majority of the time.
It seems like part of your issue, which I had at the beginning of Zwifting was not selecting the correct event for my training goals. If you are looking for something specific I would try Zwift training or group workouts. I have found these to be excellent for achieving my specific objectives.
Hope this helps.
You are right. You really can get dropped super fast. Last night my Windows machine switched to a different active window because of a stupid pop-up. In those 5 seconds to get Zwift back on and my avatar freewheeling I was way off the group. I went 100% trying to catch up, and even though I was only like 10 yards back, I was totally blown and never recovered enough for the last sprint. It’s rough but I sort of like that there is a penalty for mooching off the back too much – there is a very real risk of getting dropped.
Exactly to your last point, unless you are a regular winner of races with more than 25 people and you now get dropped like this, I don’t see what is the difference with IRL. How many times I have been IRL with a rope on my neck just to keep drafting in a group that was stronger than me. Plenty, that’s how you get stronger right. If I get dropped by such group by a few meters then, just like in truedraft Zwift, it’s extremely hard to get back and often I don’t.
Moreover, at least for me, what Melissa is describing gets amplified by the lag between power put to pedals and exercised in the game. You realized you rested a little too long, you start pedaling hard to recover, but you still have those 3-5 seconds for the game to respond exacerbating the all thing. You find yourself doing a lot of mental math to understand when to apply power when you have a lag
I’m also a “seasoned” IRL USAC racer and wholeheartedly agree with Marc McNees. Until now, I never knew that the draft model was intentionally toned down; I just thought it was very inaccurate. As a very light rider, I have good W/Kg, but don’t put out big wattage. That’s rarely, if ever, been a problem for me in real races on the flats, but in Zwift I really have trouble hanging on. IRL I’ve been in a pack at 30+ mph without working hard at all, but it ain’t like that at all on Zwift. I doubt if the new “full draft” model does this, but it should take advantage of recent research into the draft effects of different group sizes.
@ HGW I think you have it completely right. Races have been so much fun because they are so hard with half-draft. I’m not looking to sit in at 200w for an hour and then attack for 10 minutes. I’d rather not do a TT either. I haven’t done the double draft race yet bu I can’t see it causing more breakaways.
CD have you ever done a IRL race?
Half draft is alienating light riders from high level racing. Same light riders which are constantly being prematurely pushed up to race in too high categories by stupid and inadequate 20 minute W/kg-based system. Have you ever thought about that? They’re being double screwed. Just do those TT’s, instead of forcing this half-TT road race look-alike on everyone.They’re fun because you can see you rivals on the course.
I’ve done quite a few DD races in the last few weeks and here is my observation:
The draft is more pronounced, but still not as dramatic as real world (a good thing from my perspective). I’ve done a couple B races mostly sitting in the pack and the power required is still much more “TT-like” compared to real racing. I am seeing more pack finishes, but it’s hard to say whether that is just the larger/deeper fields we’re getting as winter weather is taking effect. I think there were 20+ person packs with sprint finishes for the win in my last 2 “B” races. So, less people getting dropped for sure, but hard to say how much it’s affecting break away success.
Yes, 40+ per year for the past 12 years.
@ michwoz But you light riders put out 40+w less in a flat race at half-draft as it is. And forget a hilly race. The algo for climbing/weight is even more off from IRL than half draft. And I’m not that heavy.
@CD Yes. But light rider needs to push 0.1 W/kg more for every 5kg of difference on flats just to maintain same speed as heavier rider. So for example 60kg rider needs to push 4.4-4.5 when 80-85kg is pushing 4.0, while both riders are cruising in peloton with the same speed. Are you aware of that? That’s why every lower category is totally dominated by 80-90kg riders. Because lighter riders with similar abilities were pushed to higher category long time ago. I was upgraded to A before I was even able to finish Top 20 in bigger flat and hilly B races. I was DQ’d for finishing 30th in last years Trade Team Worlds, while only trying to hang on to the second group, conserving energy as much as possible (so no attacking, no pulling, nothing). That’s the reality of light rider in Zwift racing, which is predominantly flat and hilly. As I said with half-draft and 20 minute W/kg categories light riders are double screwed by the system.
I’m not sure light riders are penalized in Zwift any more than in real world situations compared to heavy riders. In the real world, a light rider has to put out close to the same power on a flat course as heavier riders because it’s all aero drag and a small person has more relative surface area per pound than a big person. Actual watts (not w/KG) are the key thing on a flat course unless isn’t a crit with a bunch of slow/go stuff. There is certainly an “advantage” for bigger more powerful riders on flat courses in Zwift, but I don’t see it any more than real world. The minimal draft in Zwift is certainly not as strong as real life, but I don’t think the drafting model hurts small guys more than big guys. It just hurts people who don’t have big FTP’s since FTP isn’t always a good measure of racing success in the real world. I know some really strong/big sprinters who can win open class masters races in real life (if it’s not hilly) and they don’t have a prayer finishing in in the pack in a “C” zwift race. Is that broken? It is if you are a wheel-sucking sprinter, but I personally hate races where nobody is dropped and everyone is sitting in for a sprint at the end from a group of 80 people. Guess what – I’m a terrible sprinter.. Can’t make everyone happy.
I do appreciate that the FTP w/KG categories are a flawed way to categorize racers and it’s biased toward bigger guys (particularly for flat races), but I can’t think of a better way for setting the categories. You could run it like USAC w/ Categories tied to results, but that is tough to police for sandbagging and wouldn’t translate well to the general zwift community and group rides. Bottom line is that you need to pick something and I think they got it as right as they could with FTP w/KG. That’s coming from a pretty good sized guy with a decent FTP and no sprint, so perspectives vary.
I do wish there was a way to display actual wattage for other riders as well as w/kg. I hate it when I get in a break with a 140 pound guy and it takes me a while bit to realize he weighs nothing and he’s not putting out enough watts to help unless we are climbing.
In my opinion FTP W/kg system is extremely flawed. It’s pure climbers categorization used for explosive flat/hilly racing and it doesn’t make any sense. There certainly are better ways for categorization in my opinion. Something like combined score using both raw power and W/kg would be much better (it already exists in Zwiftpower as ‘Total power points’ on Zpoints page!). It even opens the way to tailor course specific (flat, hilly, mountain) categories, which I think would be optimal.
You could definitely come up with a more accurate system leveraging race metrics, history, power points, etc., but remember that we are a small representation of the zwift community. W/kg is the metric used by all group rides, training sessions, etc. and it’s assimilated across all things zwift. It wouldn’t be hard to use something else for just racing, but I think Zwift probably likes the consistency and doesn’t want to use 3rd party metrics to categorize races. Lots of people racing don’t even push their data/results to Zwiftpower, so how would you treat them? Again, it’s doable, but I don’t see Zwift pushing for this.
From my experience (even for small people), FTP w/KG puts you in a reasonable racing category, some courses being more appropriate than others. If you are getting DQ’d and upgraded from one category, you should’t be dead last in the next higher category and there are always multiple groups on the road. Pick hilly courses where possible.
It does suck to be right on the border between the 2 categories if you like to “see” results in Zwiftpower, but there is nothing keeping you from entering an A race and racing against the B’s if that’s where you feel you belong (assuming it was a mass start). You won’t show up in the A results, but zwiftpower will show you where you ended up against all the B’s. It’s a little flawed since some B’s may not be competing against you, but most people are racing anyone in front of them on the road (and you won’t get DQ’d for being over power). I do this sometimes where I don’t feel like racing hard, I’ll just enter my normal category, but treat it more like a group ride and finish wherever I want based on how hard I want to go (trying to keep the ego in check). In zwiftpower, it shows as a terrible finish position, but I don’t care.
I’m way over cat B limits now so personally it doesn’t concerns me 😉 I’m not interested in racing in lower category than A. I have similar opinion as you on that matter and I start in A even when not intending to go full gas or course doesn’t suits me. As of watts per kilo being universal measure in Zwift. I know how widely it’s being used now. It wrongfully became one and only metric in Zwift and probably it’s irreversible no. Most people just don’t pay enough attention to notice or understand how it really works.
I really like double draft but I’m not seeing many races offering it. Have you heard anything about more organizers adopting it? Also, other than zwifthacks.com, is there a way to determine is a race is using double draft? I’m disappointed that Zwift doesn’t show this on their event page.
https://zwift.com/events/
Nobody’s stopping you from riding 300 W for an hour? If the pack is too slow, then force a selection.
#boom there it is.
Does anybody know what’s happened to Double Draft. The number of events using it seems to have dropped significantly in recent weeks. I know WBR suspended its use soon after it was implemented, but it seems that others have followed suit.
P.S. Happy New Year to all on the most interesting thread of 2018!
I’m with you. They announced this awesome new double draft feature and then nothing came of it. I love DD and am confused as to why others don’t like it. Anything that makes racing more realistic is a good thing to me.
I haven’t been racing much lately, but dropping DD really sucks.
Went to check zwift hacks events page and found this interesting KISS race lab event where they are comparing the same race with and without “KISS Labs Test Race
KISS Zwift Road Races are currently testing the following feature: #DoubleDraft.
The test environment consists of two short races (KISS Labs Test Race #1 and KISS Labs Test Race #2). Race #1 will have the feature turned on, and Race #2 will have the feature turned off. Both races will occur on the same course and hopefully will include the same racers. This should provide racers a better opportunity to objectively compare how the feature impacts their racing.
Please complete both races and share your comparative experience with us on our Facebook page, in the KISS Zwift Road Race Facebook, or in Zwiftpower.com forums. We are dedicated to using your feedback to improve the virtual bike racing we all know and love. The standard event description follows. -The KISS Team.
Keep it Super Simple. Race hard and race fair.
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Anyone know what happens to a rider who is riding independently of an event and manages to join a group utilizing full draft (or whatever you prefer to call it)? Does that rider now enjoy the same drafting benefit of the group or is the draft less? Thanks in advance.
I’m glad a lot of organisers dropped doubledraft. It’s a disease: doubledraft achieves the exact opposite of what it was intended for. The draft in the bunch is so strong that there’s simply no point in even trying to attack anymore. Even if you can set up a breakaway with 3-4 people, the chasing pack (often over 20 riders in the most important weekly events) just reels you in without any effort on the next flat section.
A disease? Really? How do you know that the chasing pack was putting in no effort? Do you have the data? Have you ever done any real world racing, or only video game racing? Breakaways are rarely successful in the real world.
How to know the chasing pack puts in little effort…. hmm, because the numbers are right there on the screen? (And on ZP… oh, and on Strava…)
I also find the “breakaways are rarely succesful” quote wildly annoying. Yes long breakaway rarely make it, that’s not the point. In Zwift it’s also almost impossible for the better punchers to make a gap let alone keep it on/after up hill sections. I found in the past, on umhill sections, gaps would often fall in the middle of groups where smalls group could get away in the front. These days it feels like the entire group is kept together by a big rubberband.
I don’t know… maybe it’s just the way most racing circuits are shaped: obstacles too far from the finish and/or not difficult enough. The only hilly races where breakaways stick, from my experience, are the ones where we hit Watopia Wall in reverse.
Zwift developers must have had concerns about full drafting when they launched the platform so they decided to reduce the effect. Having raced on and off for 40 years I can attest to how hard it is to break up a peloton on the flat – even on a tight circuit crit with lots of corners the peloton tends to regroup on the straights.
The difficulty in getting a breakaway on Zwift is even worse as there is no slow down/acceleration at corners and there are no crosswinds where you can ride in the gutter to force the guys behind into the wind. There are still hills, so to some extent you can choos the circuit suit you.
My personal preference is for Zwift to try to simulate real world riding as much as possible, but I acknowledge that having full draft is somewhat cherry picking the parameters that impact cycling, ie. easier drafting without unfavourable parameters like corners and crosswinds. I also acknowledge that optimising a single parameter in the absence of the others can have unintended consequences within the Zwift ecosystem.
Great comments, Paul.
Well said Paul. And yes the Zwift developers did have concerns about it. They stated that they reduced the draft effect because they wanted people to get a better workout. That’s fine for workout mode but racing is a different animal. DD isn’t perfect but it adds a little more realism which I enjoy. But there appears to be a lot more races WITHOUT double draft so it looks like I’m in the minority.
My opinion is that the full draft is a more realistic option, and thus creates more interesting strategy inter-play between racers (just like IRL racing). But, the idea that it will “HELP” breakaways form is in error. As you take drafting benefit lower, more breaks form not less, since there’s no benefit to sitting in. Paris Roubaix? Draft matters least of many courses. Long climb? Same. If there was zero draft, the race becomes and ergometer test, or a w/kg TT. Think about it, if there’s no wind, no other factors, the guys with highest w/kg (Chris Froome) will win every time. Flat race would be some 250 lb version of Cancellara. If the benefit of drafting is low, you can’t hold Tony Martin’s wheel on a flat. In a race where drafting benefit is high, you can. He’s at 450w but a good cat 2 or 1 can do 300-350w. The “in peloton” draft benefit can be 30-40% when speed is high. That means a cat 2 can hold Martin on a slight downhill. It’s like a race where everyone turns their trainer difficulty to zero, it becomes a linear sum of work. When draft is increased, you have to think more. Saving energy becomes more interesting since it’s worth more.