Zwift’s recent race calendar cleanup announcement has racers discussing the merits of various Zwift races. Particularly, some riders are saying they prefer the smaller races which Zwift’s cleanup may remove from the calendar.
(I should mention that James Bailey, the former community race organizer and now Zwift employee tasked with cleaning up the calendar, has stated that this won’t spell the end of small races, women-only races, or events in less popular timezones. So I don’t think it’s time to pull out the pitchforks just yet.)
Some riders are concerned this will result in overly large race fields with 100 or even 200 riders per category. One reader commented:
When we speak of quality Eric, most of your Zwift Insider Tiny races are boring. Sorry to tell you that. You have large attendance of 100+ racers in each category but 95% of races end up with mass sprint no matter what route is chosen. I participate in them just to improve my race score but from the entertainment point of view, experience and overall satisfaction these races highly predictable…
A fair comment, and I don’t disagree that the Tiny Races have large turnouts, are fairly predictable, and often end in mass sprints. But this got me thinking: is this a bad thing? And if it’s so bad, why do so many people keep showing up?
Put another way: is a race’s predictability inversely proportional to its quality? Are mass sprint finishes indicative of “lower-quality” events?
What are the factors which make a race higher or lower quality, and who determines what quality is?
I think it’s worth discussing.
Viewing vs Riding
Let’s get this out of the way early: the races I like to watch aren’t the races I like race. And I’m quite sure I’m not alone in this.
I love watching action-packed, drama-filled IRL bike races. Paris-Roubaix is a favorite, while flat TdF days are low on my list unless we’ve got crosswinds. I want to see riders attacking, making mistakes, getting shelled off the back then battling to stay in contention. All of this makes for good viewing, as any cycling fan will tell you.
But usually, when I take on a Zwift race, I’m looking for something predictable on a flat or rolling course. That’s because generally when I race, I want to have a shot at winning. And I’m not winning any climbing races as a B rider with an FTP of ~3.75 W/kg.
For the purposes of this post, I’m looking at race quality through the eyes of the racer – not the viewer.
Quality Factors
Is race quality something we can measure objectively before a race begins? ZwiftPower tried to do this with their race quality rankings years ago (read more about it here). But ZwiftPower’s ranking is just a measure of the rankings of riders who are signed up for the race. It certainly isn’t a standalone number that says “this is the right (or wrong) race for me.”
A more holistic view of race quality, from a rider’s point of view, probably requires a combination of several discrete factors including:
- Participants: “the racers make the race”, as they say. How many riders are in the race, and what are their abilities?
- Animation: how excitable are the riders? How steady is the pace? Course choice is a factor here, but so are the riders themselves.
- Predictability: does everyone know how the race is going to unfold before it even happens? Or is there a level of mystery heading into the event?
- Course: how long is the race, what climbs are involved, and how does the finish lay out?
- Race Type: is it an iTT? A scratch race? A team points race?
- Schedule: when does the race happen?
- Powerups: a Zwift-specific factor, for sure, but some racers prefer races with powerups, while others prefer no powerups.
It’s quite possible that I missed some factors above (feel free to comment below). But the bigger point I want to make is that even if you could measure every race based on these factors and display some sort of “race rating” graph for every event, it wouldn’t give us an objective score that says, “This is a high-quality race” or “This is a low-quality race” for everyone.
I would submit that racers look at the factors above, even subconsciously, to determine which race they will take on. And it’s that subjective determination which largely defines race quality for the individual.
If I’m looking for a hard effort where I can work on my VO2 power and be pushed until I blow up, I may race in Yorkshire, even though I never come close to winning in Harrogate. But if it meets my goals, I’ll pick it and be happy with the experience.
Or maybe I’ve grown tired of getting my butt kicked around the ZRL B1 Division, so I head to Crit City for a 12-lapper that’s right in my wheelhouse. I know I’ll probably finish in the top 10, and will almost always have a shot at the win.
What one rider chooses on one day may not match what they’d choose on another day. So of course, the preferences of two different riders won’t always match either.
Race quality is subjective, not objective.
So how can Zwift measure it, in hopes of improving the Zwift race experience for all?
Quantifying Quality
If Zwift can’t measure quality based on the same factors racers use to subjectively decide which races to join, how can they measure quality in any objective way? Here are a few ideas:
- Post-Race Surveys: ask racers to rate their experience after the race. (Zwift already does this, but rarely and randomly.)
- Returning Riders: while a high number of signups or finishers doesn’t mean everyone enjoyed the race, when those riders return to the same event again, that’s a good sign.
- Starter and Finisher Counts: how many racers started the race, and how many finished? Interestingly, Zwift says “finishing %s are one of our clearest measures of race quality.”
In an increasingly AI-driven world, it’s worth pondering how these three measurements could be combined to create a “Satisfaction Score” for repeating race events on Zwift. It would work for group rides as well. This score could in turn be used to automatically increase or decrease event exposure on the public calendar.
Wrapping It Up
In conclusion, I believe race quality is subjectively determined by each racer, but it can be objectively measured post-race by Zwift. I’d love to see Zwift start to use those objective measurements to help racers find the best races for them on any given day.
Your Thoughts
This article was meant to be a brain dump, not a manifesto. I’d love to read your thoughts on this topic, so please share below.
My preference is opposite. I race when there is a large enough participant and hopefully slightly stronger than me. Otherwise i would ride solo or just go pace partner. And i like tiny race a lot as a great training stimulus + fun…
I wish there is more E cat just so all people can race in one field rather than have only 3 racer in cat A. Also hope ITT become a bit more popular…
I agree about the iTTs, I don’t race them much but really enjoy them and they aren’t that fun when there are only a couple people in contention.
SISU has started a weekly iTT with overall standings on ZwiftPower. Turnout has been good but for this month most of all the routes are on shorter loops. Has been interesting as all classes are visible meaning there is someone in front of you to chase down. Next week is on Crit City which might be a bit too small but will be interesting to see. A couple of times during the week and weekends as well.
the Tiny races series are awesome and the added rules made it even better. I always participate when I can. and one of the main factors for me will always be the rank of those who compete.
I hate the tiny races… I used to use my Saturday AM to look for a decent size 40km or so race before going cross country skiing in the afternoon.. now its a 5km sprint with 200 guys… zwift racing in my opinion is getting more and more lame everytime, but we all (including myself) keep coming back… nothing will ever change as long as they are making $ off us…
That is a rather subjective post (which is fair), but you don’t provide any good arguments or insights why they are “lame” or what is bad about 4x5km races. Also as far as I know especially on Saturday there are quite a few longer races, which you could attend, but you keep on choosing the tiny races instead, yet you complain about them…
I for one really enjoy the “lame” Nature of the tiny races and having 3 Sprints and 1 anaerobic effort as workout and Race.
I find that a 20-mile race feels a lot more successful no matter what result, whereas a 5-mile race exhausts you while making you feel like you should be able to ride farther, making you feel unsatisfied.
That’s why I like the Tiny Races as a series. I very rarely ride long races as a solo rider because I’m at the bottom end of my category and I’ll often be out of contention before half the race is done, usually sooner. Then it’s just a grind to the end and I end up wishing I just chose to do a workout.
When I say I like them as a series, I mean riding 4 x Tiny Races in quick succession. I definitely feel like I couldn’t ride any further by the end of the fourth Tiny Race of the day.
I dont go in the tiny races at all.. the problem is finding the longer races when I can ride,. I ski in the afternoon and used that longer race as a steady ride in the morning , those longer races with a decent size field are harder and harder to find these days…
no everyone does all the races; many just do 1 because of convenience. at least zwift can record all that short dat and cat people up. especially the sandbaggers who cant afford the luxury of sitting due to it being so short.
Just to say I enjoy races on swift but my only bug bear is I was in cat d and managed to compleat with front group never won but came close which was great now been moved up to c by swift and now only aim is not to finish last all the same still enjoying the races but would be nice if the category were not so wide most races struggle to get more than 2.8 thanks
Same. I took a long break (injury, illness, life) and dropped to D, which has made me competitive as I rebuild my FTP, which had been ~260 but is now 229. ZwiftPower has me at “D (almost C)” which is promising from a fitness perspective, but I soon might enter a long drought before having a chance at making the front split again, much less competing for the podium.
Same here, Colin. I even won a Tiny Race series one week as a D. Now I’m a bottom-end C it’s less fun. But for me still more fun than a long race.
I like winning or going for the win in races, but in the end all that matters is when you look back at the end of the race and can say DAMN that was tough and I’m happy with my finishing position. Bunch sprint finishes that are slow untill last 3K usually don’t give this satisfaction. I haven’t tried the tiny races myself but a 10 min all out effort seems like a nicer event then easy riding for 30 min and ending in a sprint.
I believe the variables extend to individual racers and how these events fit within a structured training schedule / block, or if it is used just to test one’s fitness level. Personally, I have routine days to ride and race on a regular weekly basis. I know that Tuesday is ZRL and Thursday is WTRL TTT. When I select an event on a Monday, Wednesday or on a weekend, I want shorter intensities / intervals so I don’t blow my legs out for Tuesday or Thursday. On the weekend I want longer efforts to mimic what I would normally be… Read more »
“And if it’s so bad, why do so many people keep showing up?” I’m unsure if this is a serious question? The answer has litterly been given by the guy making the complaint: “I participate in them just to improve my race score” These are short events with packed fields… in other words, there’s a massive potential source of points to be picked up for a relatively small amount of training stress. In addition: these races are so short that no one has to be scared to cross the dreaded 20min treshold for their respective category’s which is a HUGE… Read more »
The Tiny Races should be more transparent. Too much Points 4 riders who have no DR or fake DRs… also in the worlds top10.
Dull categories create dull racing, is my opinion. I could write an essay on it, but that would probably just lead to TLDR reactions. Categorizing based on race results instead would bin riders of different rider phenotypes thereby adding to variety. For the rest, if you happen to find races dull then racing up a category or animating the race between segments is allowed – but this seems an inpopular suggestion.
I love the Tiny Races. I’m new and only have around 40 races recorded in ZwiftPower. But I love the short intense races. I’m still feeling out what kind of racer I am. I had the same experience as Colin in that ZwiftPower upgraded me recently to C and I went from front running D to 75% finisher in C. But then I read a ZwiftInsider post showing me that Zwift Profile has a min cat ranking too (still not fully understanding the w/kg calculations). It shows me as a D so now I can suffer in a Tiny Race… Read more »
I’d wager your standard user loves flat, bunch zwift racing because you ‘get your moneys worth’ out of it. I covered this on the last nowhere fast ( http://wideanglepodium.com/episode-44-new-zwift-pack-dynamics/ ), but the forgiving draft coupled with the high speed blob makes a situation in which folks can ‘participate’ in races for the whole duration without getting dropped after 5 minutes. Those same dynamics have the added effect of neutralizing bad power sources that would normally ruin an event. These events are not all out efforts and let you recover when you need it, then “go to the front and drill… Read more »
Good thoughts.
Never gonna win and I’m off racing right now. But I at least want to ride with a group at or around my ability. That starts with a look at ZP. Am I gonna to have some competitive company that won’t kill me or am I going to be riding alone :0(
The TFC Mad Monday series with their split categories are fantastic. You’re always gonna to have a group and a slim chance at a podium.
I think most of the metrics you are looking at could be improved by shrinking the category size AND increasing race size. If you are at the lower end of a cat, it isn’t a fun experience as you’re busting butt just to stick with the lead while the leaders are conserving and planning attacks playing the strategy game that actually is fun. If you cull the amount of races, the only way I see it as beneficial is if you also shrink the cat size or introduce race matching (which already exists in zwiftracing.app).
Good topic Eric! First, any race is something I could/would never do irl so Zwift racing itself is a gift to me. When I tell people I race they think I’m nuts. Personally, I look for races that are ranked high (low) on ZP. I always want to be pushed. I don’t win a lot of races, but I enjoy finishing well and improving my ZP ranking. I work on little aspects of my racing like lately I’ve been working on my finishing sprint. Also, if I get dropped from the front group I’ve been working on not just sitting… Read more »
In my case I like the same races that I love to watch. I love competitions like the big tours, in which you race several consecutives days in diferenct routes with diferent characteristics, like for exlample the Winter Tour organized by HISP the las couple of weeks, 13 stages in 14 days. I think that this competitions with diference races, iTT, sprint races, climbing, etc, make you a more complete rider and push your fitness and endurence to higher levels. But again, tha is my preference. A hame that the Tour de Zwift does not have a Generla Clasification of… Read more »
The Tiny Races are interesting because they’re different. They are not just another race around Crit City with a different number of laps. To have a hope of winning a Tiny Race you need to do some thinking and have a strategy. It would be awesome if Zwift gave race organizers more tools to play with. Alternate/Variable/More category definitions (A, B, C, D, B-, C+, …) to select from Age/Weight/Points/ZP Ranking based categories Handicap races Race starts anywhere I’d also like to see more race series from Zwift like the ZRacing Monthly Series. The key to these is flexibility in… Read more »
More team based contests would be fun too. Even if you’re just assigned to a “team” when you join the pen.
DZR just held a 300 participants badge hunt with less than 100 finishers. Both because it was a 4-7h route and some people supported their friends (giving draft) for the first couple of hours.
Is that a bad event? Low finish %?
A lot of positive feedback was received while riding – and it’s my perception it’s normal for very hard routes (not everyone finish – that’s also what makes it special to finish).
Sounds to me like a lot of issues that are present in every “race” IRL. Road, Crit, TT, MTB, all have the same issues. Quality is subjective and where you find what you’re looking for.
Guess what. Racing isn’t for everyone, and not every race can be all things to all people. Vote with participation.
To your point Eric, what a racer wants is going to vary day-to-day. So Zwift should be working to ensure there is balance between having variety but managing the number so that the races have enough people to make it interesting.
The potential downfall of pruning too many races is that it reduces the variety so that all the races feel the same.
One small thing that I think affects quality is how a race starts. If all four categories go off together it leads to a very different race than when each category goes off individually. I will always go for the latter
Not everyone likes the same things. The beauty is that there are many different races to select from. Don’t only judge based on how many participants or returning participants. If it’s going to be AI driven, slowly everything will become mainstream only catering for the masses. Should Spotify remove all songs with few listeners? Youtube remove videos with few viewers? Remove content providers with few followers? Let ppl create many types of events/racers, but make it easier to find the one you look for with better filter functions, such as “which races ends with a climb” “which races have KOMs… Read more »
I wonder why don’t you try halfdraft in some events? It would simulate a tailwind and would make small breakaways stand a chance.
Food for thought. I have only about 25 races to my credit but I find the same things stimulate me as when I watch a race. Being dropped and rejoining the peloton, riders trying to escape etc. I’d rather reach the finish line half dead in 15th place and having fought to stay in the lead group all the way then ride with a slow peloton and explode at the end.. In fact I find myself sometimes prodding the peleton forward faster rather than drafting all the way even if I pay for it in the end. Makes things more… Read more »
Exactly this ^. I like the tiny races because they’re there when I need to finish a session with a tough short effort. In general though, I choose races that are available when I ride and have a decent field, at a minimum of 12 in my field and hopefully mixed so there’s 20+ in the group after the 1st mile.
Which reminds me, is there a way to tell before signing whether a race combines all the fields or is it just any non-crit race that does it.
such griping. And bizarre to hear people complain about flat races ending in a bunch sprint. That’s bike racing! If you want separation, then enter a climbing race. I absolutely love 20-40km large field races where I surf wheels, spin a high cadence, control my heart rate and hold onto the right power ups.
Quality from a rider perspective is just shorthand for competitiveness. I want to be in a race where I feel like I am competing with people at my same ability level and my effort that day will be what makes the difference. That then feeds into the whole dopamine response – “I worked hard and was rewarded!” The w/kg boundaries today don’t really allow for that. If you’re a low C rider with 2.8wkg FTP, you will never win a hilly race, even if you go crazy and finish an event at 3.0wkg because there will be people for whom… Read more »
In my opinion there are 2-3 Problems in C Cat. For some unknown reason way too many races end up as an ftp tests, because the pace is so high. Do C Cat riders dont know how to push less Watts ? Leading to the next Problem Even looking for Cat Enforced races i find way too many riders with 3.3 even 3.4 WKG, which sprinkel in some easy events so they dont jump into B Cat, many are not even labeled “Almost B” Looking at my riding history it took me 3months to jump from not riding at all… Read more »
Great article Eric, In regards to quantifying quality, l don’t believe measuring race ‘finishers’ % should be zwifts ‘clearest measurements of race quality. For example as an A cat rider l find that once A graders are dropped they rarely finish the race. My thoughts are that we at the top end are concerned with our zwiftpower ranking and getting beaten by others perhaps even (shock horror), B cat riders will lower our ranking. I choose races 1. With the largest number of entrants, knowing there is a chance of racing against tougher opposition and 2. Length of race as… Read more »
I prefer races, where there a certain level of transparency involved. Its nice when the organizer request dual recordings etc. from the top finishers. I also like the simple races that goes from A to B. I don’t mind points races, as long as I don’t need 10 post-it notes on my screen in order to keep track of the primes. A nice and well written event description is always welcome. I sadly thing that certain race series are going down the route of adding complexity in an attempt to make things interesting. Also having zPower riders excluded is a… Read more »
“A nice and well written event description is always welcome.” Yes. Quality is also a factor of how much effort the organizer puts in. There seem to be a lot of set-it-and-forget-it events in the calendar….
Hi Eric, for me, race quality can also be entirely dependent on the quality of your opposition. I’m a borderline A/A+ and can hold pretty much any field on the flat but get shelled by the very best on hilly courses. if I’m racing against a field of guys of my level then I prefer hilly courses as i generally have a better threshold and V02 than a lot of riders (but my sprint isn’t the best). however, race against the very best and I prefer a flat stage with a sprint because I can sometimes time my sprint well… Read more »
Should the discussion be what is a high quality race or should it be what is a high quality racing calender? The first is very personal and even for me personally, can depend on how I feel that day. As others already mentioned a hugh part for race quality is probably how competitive you can be in that race (more flexible categories) and for me also a bit of unpredictability, so you have to think further than only staying in the peloton and prepare for a sprint. However, since it can be higly diverse what someone experience as a high… Read more »
So simple question. What’s wrong with leaving it as is? People naturally migrate to a race with 3 people or 300. Is it really that expensive or difficult to let these small races just be on the calendar?
Leaving as-is with better filtering on the companion app would be a great option. I only want to see C events with a minimum starting field in a certain time bracket. Scrolling through 50 events (with no sign-ups) to find my available time slot doesn’t work.
Don’t most people use zwiftpower to search for events? I’ve been on zwift since 2016 and I almost never use companion to look for races.
I think many people use ZwiftHacks, it’s a lot better than ZwiftPower. But most people? I think the majority wouldn’t know to look at third party pages for Zwift events…
It depends, Peter. When I’m on my PC, I’ll use Zwiftpower, but if I’m actually riding, I use the Companion app so I don’t have to hop off and boot up my laptop.
I do not understand the problem. why should something be deleted? I also don’t understand why some people complain that the tiny races usually end in a sprint. Yes and? then drive something else. everyone can choose what they want. from the ride with 200 people and flat to the ride with 10 and Mountains. a much bigger problem is the classification in the CAT. something should be improved.
My only pet peeve racing is the races where all categories A, B, C and D all go off the line at the same time and you cannot distinguish one rider from another. As a D rider this causes lots of early ride burn out trying to keep up with higher class riders off the start and not even knowing it.
I prefer longer races with a large field. In such a situation there can be something for everyone. Being near the bottom of my cat, I know I would rarely be in contention to win, but even if /when I get dropped I can still race within the grupetto. But I can still try to hold on for as long as possible with the front. As a consequence I find the bigger series: ZRL, DRS etc most fun even though I stand no chance of winning anything. Put differently, aid rather fight for 45th place (out of 60) in ZRL… Read more »
As far as quantifying quality of races (and which races should be most easily found on the schedule as this issue appears to be coming from the idea that the schedule is too crowded and needs to be culled), I think rather than % finishers, the best metric to use should be what percentage of racers comes back week after week to do the same thing. We all enjoy different things. Even though I’m quite heavy (and that helps my low B self finish more with the mid B riders), I’m not a huge fan of flat races without a… Read more »
I haven’t read through the responses so this might have been mentioned. My opinion of a high quality race is where the participants are fairly evenly matched. I don’t think you get that in most Zwift races as the qualification metrics are too wide.
Variety is the spice of (racing) life! I enjoy a bunch sprint, I enjoy a segment points race, I enjoy a long climb and I enjoy the odd TT on a variety of course types. My experience of Zwift racing is there are numerous choices for a sprint finish but very few options in all the other categories in comparison. Improving that variety of choice and having reasonable field numbers in a more refined selection would be wonderful. Happy to race as an entry E cat if necessary, there is always a race within a race to find no matter… Read more »
I’m all for a calendar cleanup. A quick look at zwiftpower and I can see 5 races in the next hour that had less than 10 racers last week. 2 of which look like they will have similar attendance this week. I want to load Zwift and quickly be able to see the race I want to join. I prefer a larger crowd. But happy with 10-20. I really enjoy the see everyone races. As a D, almost a C, it changes the race a lot. Do you push and try to stay with lead pack as long as you… Read more »
I drafted one response to your post where I reflected on the time that I raced IRL and how “different” that was. I knew the people I raced against, races were once a week at best so I had to plan & prepare for them. My “big” point was that I was invested in each event and that was what made them so special. Their rarity was what made them “quality” events and in contrast, why Zwift events didn’t measure up – 10 minutes before a race, if I wasn’t feeling “on”, I could drop it, no harm done knowing… Read more »
really like the idea of drops to pay & possibly win.. That`s really interresting!
Everyone is in a different place. For me, I generally know how every race is going to end before it starts. I’m a low B (3.5 W/kg) and I’ll finish mid-pack at best in a large race and maybe I can sneak out a top 10 in a small race. I never have a chance to win any B race and I’m basically forced to race in the B category. Yea I can race C and try and take some off so I don’t get DQ’d on ZP, but that’s just silly. Often times I just “race” a very large… Read more »
I’m a little mystified by some of the responses to both this article and the one about pruning the calendar. Zwift is in a tough position; do nothing and folks will complain, do something….and folks will complain. Truly can’t please everybody and I view it as a positive that Zwift is trying something (will it yield positive results? ). I recent-ish started racing on Zwift (about 30 races under my belt). Categorization from both ZP and Zwift is a low to mid C. Will I podium? Not likely but I’m comfortable with that because on the platform I have an… Read more »
Great thoughts!