Pace Partners are arguably the most popular feature Zwift has rolled out in the past two years. With multiple paces to choose from, their pace groups have turned into “always on” group rides where you’ll see the same folks showing up at the same time to warm up, cool down, or put in some miles while chatting with others.
On Tuesday, Shuji announced in Zwift’s forum that Pace Partner “dynamic pace” testing will begin next week. This is exciting news, as it heralds the next step in Pace Partner evolution. Here’s the full text of Shuji’s post:
Hi Pace Partner fans –
We’re testing a new feature for Pace Partners starting next week called Dynamic Pace, and ask for your feedback on this thread.
With Dynamic Pace, rather than holding a constant pace as elevation changes, the Pace Partner will adjust its effort to maintain a smoother ride with the goal of keeping the group together. On constantly rolling, mildly hilly terrain, this more closely resembles how many cyclists ride in real life.
- Currently, C. Cadence rides at 2.5 Watts / kg no matter the terrain.
- We’re going to increase the pace slightly on uphill grades to about 2.7 W/kg.
- C Cadence will let the group know to increase the pace on climbs.
- On downhills, the 2.5 W/kg pace will resume.
- This test will begin Monday, March 28 @ 05:00 UTC. Convert to your local time zone here
- The test is only for C. Cadence on the three Watopia routes she uses: Tempus Fugit, Tick Tock, Sand and Sequoias.
- Depending on your feedback, we may make further adjustments to her pace.
Future implementations of Dynamic Pace may be different depending on the route being used, and the Pace Partner leading the ride. We’re looking forward to your feedback on this test!
What About Downhills?
Some Pace Partner lovers will immediately question why Zwift is only increasing the power on the climbs, and not decreasing the power on the descents. If you’ve ridden much with a Pace Partner on hilly terrain, you’ve probably noticed that the group tends to surge ahead of the bot on the uphills, then the bot surges to the front on the downhills. This is because riders naturally up their power on climbs and decrease power on descents due to the resistance fluctuations on their smart trainer.
Here’s what Shuji had to say about this question:
Since several of you have already asked: we have done some internal testing with easing the pace on the downhill. The net effect of dipping below 2.5 W/kg on descents can vary depending on the section of the road you’re on. A subtle pace reduction that feels just right on short rolling hills is probably too slow on a lengthier downhill where gravity gives you free speed with no pedaling effort.
In this phase of testing, we’re focusing on the climbing pace. Adjusting pace for the descent is already being planned, don’t worry!
More to Come
In chatting with members of Zwift’s game development team, it’s clear they have plenty of great ideas for Pace Partners. This “dynamic pacing” is just the start of making Pace Partners more useful and smart, and the possibilities are virtually endless. Pace Partners could announce short sections of higher effort, greet new Zwifters who have joined the pack for the first time, respond to gradient changes in various ways, and much more.
But we have to begin somewhere. And that happens Monday!
Got Feedback?
After you’ve tried C. Cadence’s dynamic pacing, chime in with your thoughts on the forum thread so Zwift hears your feedback. You may also be prompted for feedback within the game itself at the end of your C. Cadence ride.
Questions or Comments?
Share below!
The day the pace partner “races” me through my sprint and VO2 workout intervals may be the day I stop training outside, even when the weather is 💯
In general, if I’m doing a just riding along ride with Coco (or whatever pace partner), I think it’s a fine idea to help with the realism and break up the monotony. When I’m using the pace partner group as race warmup (what I use them for most of the time), I’d prefer they stick with a single, constant pace because all I’m trying to do is get my heart rate up and my legs loose. I don’t want to do too much extra work surging up hills to match the group in those cases. If they’re going to do… Read more »
Agree!!
I’m looking forward (not) to the barrage of messages while riding from the bots yelling at everyone to speed up, or slow down! “Mush riders, mush, we must go faster!” “Here comes another hill peeps, stop whining, I’m slowing down, you should to!”
Maybe we can come up with a list of messages they can use to enhance the entertainment value!
Too bad Tempus Fugit and Tick Tock are effectively flat.
Agreed. Sequoias will be fun though. It’s a perfect trial run.
I think the rest just tells us it’s the same bot making those three runs.
I’m okay with this very moderate change to Pace Partners, but please don’t change this into a workout session. If I want a workout session, Zwift has plenty to choose from.
Agree completely. Pace partners are recovery/long z2/warm up rides for me. Don’t want to workout with them. If there was one that was right at the edge of my power limit I might try it as a workout, but that’s not what I’ve used them for to date.
The incremental nature of these changes is perfectly all right with me. Tweak the uphill w/kg, check and see how people react. Adjust, check, adjust again. The user population of Zwift is rather, uh, *dramatic* about its reactions to these things, but that’s how to improve your product steadily over time. I assume that delivering something like personal best bots on a route has proven resistant to this model. Zwift is likely stuck trying to develop a much more completely-cooked feature before users ever see it, and not sure of the ideal requirements. (You want the relative pacing of different… Read more »
I agree with the incremental release, review, revise, repeat cycle. Small changes, controlled for a period of time on a popular, limit Pace Partner and then check the feedback. Many of the comments are providing good feedback on why we each ride with the pace partners.
The bot paces are set, and set is what they should stay. What Zwift should work on is better draft dynamics so that lighter riders such as myself don’t have to redline on the descents just to keep from falling off. IRL you’re pulled along; on Zwift you’re off the back and scrambling.
“What Zwift should be working on are the things I’m personally interested in and that would benefit me the most” fixed it for ya
Next please let Zwift implement just the ability to turn off chat. I know I can ride no HUD but I value my metrics, what I don’t value is the amount of boring, know it all, humourless, cliquey, brown nosing keyboard warriors who talk the biggest amount of rubbish known to man. Sometimes I just want to ride and not have to see the same 5 people who ride with cadence every day spouting their usual nonsense or join a TdZ ride and have to put up with political back and forth constantly. Just let me hide chat or give… Read more »
I know on Mac/PC you def can turn off chat in the settings menu, as I leave it turned off 99% of the time. Not sure about iOS/tvOS/iPadOS/Android though.
Nsure what device you’re using, but I turned off chat just the other day on my Mac because I didn’t want any MSR spoilers lol. I assume you can toggle it on any device.
I feel your pain. Turn off the display and then monitor your metrics using the companion app. This is what I do and have done for two of the ToW stages because of the chat.
This is available. I the settings menu, select hide group chat. I turn this off a lot when I don’t want to be distracted or have bike race spoilers.
A step in the right direction. We all know Zwift isn’t exactly fast to implement new things, so we’ll take it where we can get it.
I really enjoy the pace bots. I would love to see you add more! I would rather ride a bike with 12 gears vs. 4, and in the same way, a range of 12 different bot paces would be marvelous!!!
I second that comment. I’m not a big fan of bots changing pace because what I seek when joining a pace partner ride is consistency. But adding more bots with an array of different paces would be great.
hmm, quite a big change, personally i prefer for pace partners to maintain a steady power so i can ride semi-AFK whilst watching something else on a second screen..! now i will have to pay attention to what is going on! (isn’t that what races/workouts are for?)
Just curious.. why not just free ride while watching the second screen? Why ride with a group if you’re not engaged with it? For the extra drops?
Absolutely what I was thinking. These bots are clearly designed for those who want impromptu group rides they can stay engaged with and enjoy. If you’re riding with a bot but not paying any attention, you’re just looking for free XP, or a faster average speed on Strava. Nothing wrong with that, but don’t ask Zwift to tune a feature clearly not designed for you
You should just import a training plan at your set W/kg for 4 hours, then you’ll be held to that power and will not need to think about anything.
Why aren’t there pace partners set up at a certain pace to climb the major climbing routes? That would be so helpful.
Absolutely screw this. Everybody already hates the sweaty mid-life crisis boys turning it up on EVERY hill, and now the pace partners too? Pacepartners are great for those who just want to pick up miles while doing something else. Leave us alone please and go race up 1% grades somewhere else.
It’s not about racing uphill, it’s about doing what comes naturally. IRL it is normal to increase the effort slightly due to the incline.
if you want to ride while doing something else, why bother joining a group ride? If you don’t want to pay attention to the terrain or the other riders, just do a free ride on your own or set a workout at a constant power level.
You mean cyclists. Cyclists increase effort against gradient and decrease it on descent because that’s how they go faster overall. Anyways it’s better if you stand up from time to time. No midlife crisis necessary.
Zwift isn’t just stationary biking, there happens to be terrain and simulation.
This seems an unnecessary change and waste of resources. It’s really not that difficult to learn to hold a steady pace and stay with a Pace Partner.
But bit is artificial. It’s not what we do IRL when we encounter a hill.
It will be super interesting to see how this unfolds in real life. It’s not just the pace (and the pace dynamics) but also the size of the pack. I’ve observed a huge difference in the ride based on how many people are in tow (and to a lesser extent, how many people are out on the course). I think this is a good change for the pace bots with the bigger packs. Riding with A. Anquetil is quite a bit different because there are so few people along. She often drops people on the climb, but I’ve seen her… Read more »
Roughly +0.05 to 0.1 W/kg/% when going uphill and -0.2/% when going downhill would make sense and add realism. But I guess +0.2 uphill is a first step. Do B. Brevet next, please. 🙂
Cadence is a fairly light bot, about 65 kg, right? That’s an extra 13 watts uphill, does not seem that much. I suspect most of us vary that much anyway, unless we are using ERG mode (from Zwift or from another app while Zwifting). It’s rather natural to push a tad more uphill, so this change should feel pretty normal compared to IRL. (I know I push MORE than that uphill.) Wonder which course Cadence will be riding next Monday?
The thing is, if you’re not the same weight as the pace partner, it’s already not a steady ride. If you’re heavier, you’re already possibly going flat out to hold with the pack uphill and this will drop you; if you’re lighter, you’re having to slow uphill (unnatural-feeling) AND possibly spinning out downhill trying to keep up (super unnatural-feeling). And if you’re the same weight as the bot, your feeling about the experience will vary based on whether you want an even-zone ride or if you want a realistic feel. So this change will primarily aid lighter riders — and… Read more »
Exactly this.↑ If you are not the same weight as the pace partner, it isn’t a steady ride.
Great idea. I’d love more variance, I get very board traipsing along at exactly the same watts per kilo the entire time.
update from Zwift HQ “Really loving all the early feedback we’re seeing on this feature test for the Pace Partners. Combing through it, we’re going to make some adjustments ahead of the start of the test: For the downhill grades that C. Cadence rides in Watopia only, she will ease up to about 2.3 w/kg to allow folks to get back on the wheel. On those downhills, you may see C. Cadence change color to yellow. We are looking specifically to see if color changes based on pace intensity are a helpful visual indicator for Zwifters. As for the need… Read more »
That sounds like great news. I wish they’d started with up and down 0.1, but at least they’re trying something. After 2+ years of them being future mode things, I was getting tired of the survey after every ride given that there weren’t any changes.
I love the pace partners. But if I can catch a large group ride, like Tour of Watopia, I prefer the real watt changes in a group ride. I am all for making the pace partners as “real” as possible. Cyclst don’t ride up and down hills at the same watts. I 100% support this.
Somewhat off topic, but can anyone explain to me why the pace partners stated pace seems to be much higher than what is actually required to keep up with them? Yesterday I did a 20 min ride with A. Anquetil. She is supposed to ride at 4.2w/kg, but looking at my ride data, in a very small peloton I was able to stay with her while averaging 3.35 w/kg. I don’t understand why there would be such a large difference between the pace partner’s stated pace and the effort needed to keep up with her?
Drafting. 🙂
Also, you may weigh more than the A. Anquetil bot, who only weighs 65kg.
Kinda confused to see how many people use the
Pace Partners to warm up for a race at even w/kg.
how are you going close to your 1min max at the start of the race to get into the lead group if you didn’t do varying paces and surges during your warm-up?
I don’t know about others, but I’ve found with C Cadence I drop into the group, spin the legs for 10 minutes or so, then do 30s harder efforts to get my HR up. On those efforts I’ll usually start near the back of the pack, then finish off the front. Then I’ll ease and let the pack catch me again.
Usually for race warmups I end up in a group off the front of C Cadence by the end anyway… but it’s nice to have the group to chat with and start the warmup with.
I’d love to graduate up pace partners during a ride. Start with some D and jump up and down the ladder. I sometimes do that by keeping my eyes open for others, but hard to do if they are on very different routes.
Yes, Pace Partners are the best thing in Zwift over last couple years. They desperately need to add a D+ and C+ BOT. The current gaps between B, C, and D are too large.
I think that most riders try maintaining momentum initially with a first order return to normal power levels if the slope continues for too long. So a long climb may start out harder but then return to 2.5. A down hill would go back up to 2.5
another feature would be to change pace partner in-game like from D – C or B-A, this would allow for a better warm-up
Is this just for Watopia or the Makuri Island C. Cadence also? I can barely keep up as it is, so this change will likely just drop me.
Just Watopia according to Shuji’s forum post.
I’ve asked dozens of times for a 2.0 pace partner. Why not?
Would love to see this on the Makuri route (Flatland). Did that today, and it was a totally different experience, with a much smaller group and a more diverse course (compared to Tempus Fugit or Tick Tock). Certainly was not just a drafting fest, and more of a challenge to stay with Cadence. Found it interesting that I could choose to ride Makuri with a bot, even though it was not a featured world (like having a 4th world available).
The Makuri pace partners are a nice change of pace.