I have been using Zwift for two years now. What started out as something new to try during the winter months has turned into a training platform with results I can see and feel. When I first started on Zwift I took the normal tests and used the metrics to enter a few group rides. In those early days, I was solidly at the bottom of Cat C but as my riding and training improved I found myself creeping toward the top of the category and even nearing the cutoff between Cat C and Cat B. Awesome news right? I am improving and my results are starting to back up the feelings in my legs… or perhaps not.
I don’t feel this situation is unusual or unique to me. As many Zwifters continue to improve they must also follow categorical rules for events. ZwiftPower keeps those events honest as you can be DQ’d if your numbers are not in-line with requirements for the category you entered. In fact, this happened to me in my last Cat C race!
Overall ZwiftPower’s automatic filtering and disqualifying keeps the racing more even by organizing categories, determining category upgrades, and removing sandbaggers from the final results. So if you’re not registered on ZwiftPower go for it! It’s free and after you sign up there’s not much to do except see better results.
Now things get interesting, as I find myself at the bottom of the Cat B group. Making that transition from Cat C to B was one that made me feel super positive, I knew I was improving and now I could race with the ‘Big Boys’. However, while I was very competitive and working hard for podiums in Cat C, after my first few B events I’m setting simple goals of ‘Don’t take last’ or ‘Push it hard at the beginning to make the split…into the 2nd group’.
Oddly enough, it seems that sometimes improving can kill your positive outlook.
If you haven’t had the experience (riding inside or out), let me tell you that pushing hard and not gaining can be super depressing. So what to do? It can be overwhelming to always be pushing as hard as you can to simply hold a wheel. There is a sense of pride in it for me though. I have worked incredibly hard, early mornings and late nights to get the chance to ‘try and hold the wheel’. So I am choosing to use it as a motivator.
I was really ecstatic when I could start being competitive in Cat C races and I know I can get there in Cat B. It’s just going to take more time pushing my limits even further.
Zwift has created an environment for us all to work together and compete. Whether that’s against each other or just ourselves we have the chance to keep improving. Although I am at the bottom of the category now I hope to get into the middle with some more work and who knows, maybe push the top of the group sometime down the road. Wish me luck!
What About You?
Have you found yourself in the dreaded ‘Riding the line’ situation on Zwift? How did you deal with going from the front to the back of the pack? Got any tips to share with me?
I hope you keep pushing your limits and maybe next time we can battle it out for a win… or just not to take last!
The same exact thing happened to me. I started using Zwift to rebuild my fitness after I broke my femur in a crash this past summer. I started out as a mid pack C rider and my fitness improved until I began getting DQ’d in cat C and started racing with the B’s. It was soon apparent that I was not at the same level as the guys at the front of the B races (many of whom were averaging 4.2-4.5 w/kg well above cat limits 🙄 ). While it is probably impractical I found myself wishing there was a “C and half” cat for people who were too fast for C but weren’t fast enough to be competitive in B. Since then I’ve improved and at least in shorter races I now have a chance of finishing in the top 10 but still, unless the field is weak, not much chance of a win.
Yes,I’ve noticed that Aaron,avarage of 4.1-4.5 w/kg when it states 3.2-3.9 w/kg,I’m sure these riders are on the limit of being In the A’s but riding just under the limit and being in the top 5 of the B’s,I’ve also spoken to a few people in the A’s that say the racing on zwift is getting unbelievably fast.
Great,glad I’m not alone,I got upgraded pretty much as soon as I started racing,like you said I’m at the “dont be last” and just blowing my stack to keep up with the front group,I’m improving,moving up the leaderboard slowly,I’ve just learned how to draft properly which is a massive help,I can now have somewhat of a rest (iff you could call it that),starting racing on zwift has catapulted my training results to way beyond where I wanted to be,great thread,keep up the good work. 🙂
The problem is all the riders riding in a wrong category. Often is the top 10 in both B and C riders producing enough watt for A and even A+. Then it is impossible for the rest of us to compete for the podium. It would be better if Zwift automatically placed the riders in the category where they belong. I can’t se why they shouldn’t.
Fantastic article as it’s exactly the position I’m in. After 54 races, only two meet the bare minimum of Cat B but once you are in, you are in! I no longer reach the Cat B levels of 3.2w/kg but because I did reach 3.27 for 2 races I cannot leave B. It’s depressing in B for all the reasons in the article.
After enough results below the B category limits, ZwiftPower should downgrade you to C again. Of course, you can choose to ride in B anyway, but I went up to B and down to C a couple of times. I’m riding as a Barely B at the moment.
Your category is calculated by taking an average of your best 3 FTP’s in races in the last 90 days. Train hard and race below the threshold if you want to downgrade.
If it’s important to you, you could ask for the results of the two races where you exceeded the Cat C w/kg max to be deleted?
Maybe check this will work before you get rid of your best results though :)Olly H
In making your climb to the next category is there anything (training plan, hours in saddle etc.) you would recommend someone else doing who wants the same results?
Thanks and snow days are riding days!
I’m a cat c racer but can hold my own at cat B but it depends on my mind set
But always happy to be someone’s domestique
See out there
Ride on everyone
If you can hold your own in B cat. How are you a C cat. racer. What does your mind set have to do with it ? I don’t race in D cat. when I feel like cheating. Sorry I mean when my mind set is ???. Do appreciate your honesty not many admit to being part of the problem
I’m not sure it is actually that simple. I took part in only my second proper race yesterday (TdZ Stage 1) as a Cat C (my FTP as measured in Zwift is almost exactly 3.1w/kg) and was able to come home 11th out of around 80 (3rd on ZwiftPower – WooHoo), and ZP shows me as a C on screen.
However, all the riders ahead of me were showing between 3.3 and 3.7 w/kg for the race, but as it was only half and hour long that probably isn’t that significant. However, the time I completed the race in would have put me well up the field in the Cat B race that started a few minutes before us. Obviously comparing across different races is not an exact science, but seem to me I could have held my own in the B race, even though I am categorised as a C and almost completely lacking in race craft.
May be to do with the difference between being a Cat C racer in w/kg terms (i.e. under 3.2 w/kg) and a Bat B racer in real terms (i.e. pure wattage). Big guys will be fast enough for Cat B while still being under 3.2w/kg, skinny wimps like me less so!
Arf, Cat C and Bat B! 🙂
I know that pain all to well. Interesting my wife has just been upgraded to B in zwiftpower but Zwift needs desperately to sort out the blatant cheats and people not ballsy enough to ride their appropriate Cat. It makes racing very frustrating and I think it puts people off it too.
I started racing B but got forced into the A category based on my results. Now I consistently have to race with some of the A+ guys who are pro level and I have virtually no chance winning. It’s somewhat frustrating but I refuse to sandbag in B because I will never get stronger doing that.
I’m now in A’s, and boy, what a difference that is to Cat B. I actually raced all stages of Tour de Zwift, as I felt it would be a good experience to really push myself, but become race smarter. What I learnt quickly was…. Cat A riders fly up the hills, and you never catch them unless you are pumping out insane WKG. My own average WKG for the races was between 4.0 and 4.3, which given the draft and differences in elevation, it was still pretty much full gas. Now I try to finish as high as I can with lesser WKG than those below me!
C is the biggest joke of all categories, in that SO many of the riders in it are actually B or A capable and just ride C for an “easy” win, it’s overwhelmingly obvious when you look at how many people get kicked out from these events on Zwiftpower.
I similarly started out in C and realized my experience in B was far better and more realistic. This was after riding as many “E” (Open cat) time-trials as I could possibly find because I see TT as the most fair racing on zwift there is, just you and your capabilities versus the clock without the strategy of having to hop on the wheel of faster riders if you want any shot at all.
Now that my strategy has improved I still enjoy riding in B-class races, but the range of power that wins is always going to be pushing right up against the upper-ceiling of the category limits.
Depends on the race. I’m a B maxing out at 3.7 w/kg, but I’m often on it near the podium in flat races at 3.6 or so. Racing smart makes a huge difference!
Course knowledge is also a huge factor. Knowing when to dig in and use your efforts to close a gap to a group when you know a descent or flat section is coming up could be the difference between staying in the first or second group or getting dropped.
Completely agree on this part, Observing where exactly on the course moves seem to magically happen has been paramount to me being able to tackle the mental aspect of the race.
Having that confidence going into the event and knowledge of the route is huge!
Yeah drafting efficiently can have a massive difference in your average output, there’s definitely a lot of psychology/strategy occuring in any given race as to where exactly to sit.
Racing smart also means choosing races that suit you. My 3.8 to 3.9 w/kg ave has me midpack at best in flat B races as my absolute watts are not super. I would do a little better in climbing courses but these are rare in Zwift, so I’m left to struggle like many others squarely placed in B criteria. Alas, it makes for a great workout!
sheesh.. Wish I had the same experience, I get annihilated in a B Cat with my w/kg around 3.4-3.6.
Agree with ya 100 percent. It’s amazing how a group of “C” riders can keep the wheel of the “A & B” groups and push out close to 4Wkg for the first 10 minutes of a race. Then after building up a huge gap, dial it back enough so the Wkg for the race don’t get them a DQ on Zwiftpower. The sandbaggers (I call them cheaters, cause that’s what they are) are just good at taking advantage of the system in place on Zwift & ZwiftPower. If you put out 3.2Wkg in a 1hr 35min. race you will probably get on the podium. Even though the 3.2Wkg cat. max. is based on what you can output for ONE HOUR before exploding. In other words if you can maintain you FTP for 95min. it’s not your true FTP is it.
“Your category is calculated by taking an average of your best 3 FTP’s in races in the last 90 days. Your FTP is considered to be 95% of your best 20 minutes in that race”
-ZPower
3.4 w/kg for 20 minutes will get you DQd even though your ftp is likely 3.1 or below
This is the other major problem. Races are not created equal in that a 20 minute race is not remotely equivalent to a race over an hour. The categories between the two should be adjusted as a result…they should be tighter overall in my view but certainly for shorter races.
Yes, I’m in the same situation. Upgraded to B about a month ago. It was great when in C as I was getting on to podiums & loved looking at results. Now I’m looking at results & trying not to come last. If not last that’s my victory!! Although, I do feel as though i am solo TT’ing in races because I get dropped from the pack within the first mile or 2 (they don’t half start fast!!) However, a few riders get dropped as the race goes on so I’m always on hunt for someone to try and catch, then stay with them or pass & keep ahead of them.
I’m thinking i need to develop a sustained effort at the start & then hopefully hold on to a group for the remainder! Also I’m thinking of still entering Cat C interval type rides to develop fitness as this is still my level of over & under power outputs as i don’t think you get disqualified from these. Once did a B Interval but accident but top end power intervals was way out of league!
So your not alone! We’ll just need to keep fighting not to come last and then as we keep pushing our limits the next goal is to finish in the top of the field!!!
I went from cat C to B about a month ago and you definitely need to smash it harder than you think you can at the start to stay with the pack.
I normally get dropped by the front pack about halfway (or sooner if there’s a climb), but there always seems to be a second group to stick with for the rest of the race. This is much preferable to soloing it, and stops you being last!
Agree. Upgrading can be depressing. I got upgraded from B to A, when I had some exceptional days. I cannot produce that power on my latest rides, and now I am no more competing and it takes the fun away.
But what I hate to most about Zwift is that when you go get beaten by riders who’s power source seems not correct. When in Zwiftpower, you click on there STRAVA profile and see there real life rides, you just know that the zwift rides are not right.
But don’t forget that riding in real life is sometimes under different conditions. At the moment my roadbike is mounted to Zwift and I ride with my trekking bike. Additional to that in winter time, you are usually much slower because of your winter clothes and maybe bad weather. Or you are cycling with your kids, or going to the supermarket. I know what you mean, but don’t think someone is a cheater because you looked at his last 3 rides.
Bye the way, I am struggeling too at B ;-).
Yes I know, comparing all sorts of rides before making conclusions.
It is just hard to accept getting beaten by people who are 20 years older (I am 35) at the same weight or heavier. Bear bellys on photo’s …
Power numbers should be relatively similar indoor and outdoors. Extra clothing, wind, etc. doesn’t affect power.
No, but the way you ride does. I generally push a lot harder inside than outside. Indoor training rides tend to be shorter (1-2 hours compared to 3-5 hours outdoors once the good weather arrives), and my shorter rides are mostly for commuting where I am riding with traffic and between traffic lights and roundabouts.
Hammering away on Zwift where none of that stuff is an issue and I can stop and get off when I need to if I go too hard gives me very different power numbers than when I end up 30 miles from home and want to make sure I can make it back in one piece.
It’s a known thing that outdoor power can be significantly different from indoor power for some individuals. Even when those individuals do really work to the same perceived effort. Theories about why vary, from *very* different heat dissipation between the open road (wind + your speed vs a fan) to microvariation in resistance on the road vs more consistent resistance variation on a trainer to more nebulous “psychological” factors. It’s not consistent — some people report more power inside, some report more outside, some are pretty close between the two locations.
Personally, Everytime I get bumped to A (which means I get near all time highs… at 4.1w/kg) I lose interest in racing
Having the race blow up so quickly and riding solo is less fun for me than interval workouts. So I usually avoid racing until my fitness drops down a bit
Strange…
This is indeed the absurd perverse consequence of the current classification system.
totally agree. race is less fun for sure riding solo or in two’s or three’s…
I’m in the same boat, got pushed into A category because of two Crit City races and two TdZ races, wich were all around 20 minutes. Of course my best 20 minutes will be better in a 20 minutes race than they will be in a race around one hour or longer. So now I am not sure if I should start underperforming in longer races until I get downgraded to B or if I should just give up on Zwift racing. Because there is no way I can stay with the pack in A groups, especially on flat routes. Even in B I got dropped on the Harlow Climb in Stage 7, but still that was the last straw that (inadvertently) got me into A. To me it felt like a punishment. 🙁
I have been in the exact same situation. Got pushed into A after some crit races lasting around 20 minutes. I completed some races as an A in the TdZ but was nowhere near the 4.0 W/Kg in the hilly races and ended at the bottom of the lists. I’m not motivated to work my way up the A category. That would require way more time and dedication that I’m willing and able to lay down. There is a HUGE difference from being in the upper part of the result lists in the B category and fighting for a podium in the A races. It’s like it gets exponentially harder to reach the top.
My last races in the TdZ was in the B category after I got downgraded to B again. Racing was fun again! 🙂
The W/Kg category system is obviously ready for replacement.
Great article! I had the same experience going from a decent B to a rubbish A, it’s definitely a bit soul-destroying at first! On the positive side though, it’s a great measure of your progress having Zwiftpower telling you that you are now strong enough to go up a category and I took real encouragement from that. I’m probably a bit more picky with the races I choose now looking for those that match my strengths more. I’ve accepted I’m not going to win or podium as much but now I have new targets and I can still see myself improving which is all the motivation I need. The first time I hung on to (the back of!) a strong lead group of As until the finish, I was even more happy about it than I was about winning a race as a B. And hey, now I’ve even upgraded from a rubbish A to a mediocre one!
I am in the exact same spot, and honestly I don’t mind.
I was winning races in C, now I am in the middle of the back half of the peloton. That’s fine for two reasons.
First, I don’t think “low B” is my limit – I will train, and I want to improve. By no means I’ll complain about being where I am because I’ve made it there, and I’ll do my best to go even further.
Second, there is only one true category – a free-for-all group race. Everything else is an artificial attempt to slice the cake in a way so that everyone has a chance of “winning”. It can be power category, or an age group, or something else. But you cannot be a world champion in the “I spin twice a week in my spare time” category, nor there is a separate Tour de France winner for those who “generally like cycling, but also like beer”.
Just try to be your best at whatever you do, and love cycling in yourself, not yourself in cycling.
By the way I hope my comment doesn’t sound negative – I am definitely not trying to accuse anyone of anything and I just give my point of view – I surely understand different people may have different opinions on the topic
You’re right. The categories are artificial anyway, and if anything serve the purpose to split is into groups so we can ‘race’ in a field somewhere close to our own power output.
Coming back after 10 months off the bike following a serious accident, I can keep up with the C’s, but only just. If there was a cat B2 (lower cat B, or 2.5-2.75W/kg), I’d be at the ‘front’ of it in the next one or two months. However, who cares?
I personally like the group rides, finding a group of riders close to my place, so I’m not soloing.
The real racing happens on the road, as Zwift depends on the trainer (smart/not smart/calibration), the correct rider’s weight being entered, etc.
Zwift ‘racing’ shouldn’t be taken too seriously.
Surely you have a point, Denis, but I nevertheless still think it should be a goal to device a (point-based) classification system that allows everyone to enjoy the pleasure of competing for podium spots, once in a while. Even those riding only twice per week 🙂
Interesting article! I am at the top of Cat C with most races around 3.1 w/kg and finishing around 9-10th place. The last Tour De Zwift C race I thought was crazy as I put in a good effort and still got 36th place. Everyone above me had 3.2-3.6 w/kg after zwift power corrected placings…winner at 3.4 w/kg. I know for shorter races they give .2 leeway but didn’t think I would be this far back. Granted…I have only done 9 races and still need to learn some zwift racing skills. I do find the races fun despite the issues and look at them as more of a good workout and try not to get hung up on results. I am just not looking forward to getting bumped up to B which will likely happen at some point and fighting to just not be last 🙂
Remember, it’s 95% of your 20-minute power. That means you can do 3.35w/kg for 20 minutes and still be under 3.2 for your FTP.
One other thing to be aware of that I just realised when reviewing one of my recent race results is that it is not just w/kg that matters when it comes to categorization.
I’m a newbie that only started road biking last year and joined Zwift in December starting in Cat D and have just been bumped up to Cat C (and looking forward to the challenge of trying not be be last).
But in one of my races I noticed there was a Cat D rider with 20 min power of 3.1 w/kg (95% was 2.995w/kg) which was still clearly over the cat D limit and they had not been DQ’d by Zwiftpower.
After a bit of digging I realised that the Categories are based upon w/kg AND actual watts.
So in my case the rider in question was a 46kg woman who was putting out a 95% of 20 min of 2.995 w/kg (over cat D limit), but they were only putting out a 20 min power of 144w (below cat D limit), hence not DQ’d in Zwiftpower.
Can confirm – I’m a short, light guy, in B cat.
My last race outside of Tour de Zwift I hit a new PB of 4.1 w/kg, which was the highest amongst all other cat B racers in that event. I finished 17th out of 23, 03:30 behind the cat B winner.
4.1w/kg for me was 260w, the winner of B cat was 3.7w/kg, for them that was 325w.
Conclusion? Don’t race flat courses! 🙂
I’m pleased zwiftpower takes both w/kg and actual watts in to account.
It seems like it would help if there were narrower W/kg ranges for some of the races, and maybe fewer of those races so we could get the numbers for them. It’s fun to make up your own mini-race among your 2nd group (and maybe try to pick off stragglers from the first group who drop off a mid-course hill), but it’s not the same as having a chance to get on the podium.
Or it could be neat if you got bonus drops for taking a pull in a race, bridging a gap, finished first in a group, etc. Some material reward for executing well on the race, even if not in contention for a podium.
Until there is a way to verify weight, you’ll never really know how fair these races are. I’m always at the top in avg watts, but not so hot in w/kg. I will continue to battle. I will continue to lose. I won’t lie about my weight. Zwift has changed my life. Good enough
Absolutely. As long as people can enter whatever weight they wan without a means of verification, Zwift racing will remain somewhat artificial. Not that anything is wrong with that, as if that’s what some people need to motivate them, that’s fine with me. However, I personally can’t take it too seriously.
For group rides at least the splitting into categories works, as I can find people to ride with and not be soloing all the time.
Same for trainers, how do people know theirs is accurate? For example, my Tacx Flux S is supposed to be accurate to within 3%, but i can clearly see from my other 2 power meters it is no where near the published accuracy. For example, at times i can be doing 280W (via Assiomas / sometimes Vector 3s) and it can be showing 340W on the turbo output!
If someone else has same turbo they could be believing they are putting out the higher watts. Had similar discrepancies with my previous wheel on trainer.
I understand what you are saying. I had a Tacx Flux. First year worked great an the numbers where consistant with my stages powermeter. (and yes, I calibrated every single time) After a year give or take, the Flux numbers went a 30-50w avs up and a later the belt came of. Tacx gave me a choise, replacement or pay a little fee for an upgrade to Neo T2. I choose the upgrade.
The power numbers of the Neo T2 are also consistant with my stages powermeter (on two different bikes with two different stages).
So I know that indoor & outdoor power values are comparible and correct.
That’s why most people only look at zwiftpower as the official race results. It’s much harder to game the system by adjusting your weight. You’ll get disqualified if your weight keeps changing drastically.
Went from C to B and then to A in about 6 months. I never win races anymore but i still love doing them. The improvement is what im really after. I feel it’s way more motivating getting a promotion and having bigger numbers then winning C races … i happen to have a super strong FTP with a super low sprint. I’ll always end up getting smashed in A races, but do does a lot of domestiques irl. That’s bike racing !
It sounds like there is a potential chance for Zwift to shuffle up the categories. Maybe instead of A B C D E make it
Pro (zwift kiss league)-obviously only a handful will be in here and by invite only
Elite (A+)
A
B
C
D
This would theoretically push a lot of those A+ riders into an area where they belong, while funneling more people out of B into A, and so on and so forth.
I only recently started racing on Zwift and am currently in Cat D. Based on my W/kg I should be at the front of most D races but find it’s a complete mixed bad – sometimes you get guys winning the Cat D races putting out over 4W/kg… There was a guy who won the last race i entered who averaged 4.89W/kg (admittedly only for 25 minutes, but still..). Also if you calculated what his declared weight must have been it would’ve been 48kg which seems a little suspicious for guy listed as 180cm tall.
Anyway, always being beaten in D doesn’t really inspire me to move up to C.
I had the same experience upgrading from cyclocross Cat B to Cat A a few years back. I went from winning races to hanging on. My expectations had to change to be more realistic. I started to focus on finishing in the top 15 or top 10 by seasons end. These were good goals but eventually I realized to be competitive I would need to increase my training time to 20+ hours a week. For me this was unrealistic and I lost focus. Zwift has inspired me to get on the bike during a time I normally couldn’t ride (due to weather). I appreciate the data, training and analysis available as I can really track improvements. I would say hang in there and focus on your own achievement (win a sprint to take a jersey), ride 100k or 100 miles, increase your 1 minute average power, suffer until your heart rate is maxed out and then go for 10 more seconds, or just cruise and enjoy riding a bike. The wins will come!
The same for me – after winning a race in D with 2.7 W/kg changed immediately to C, now trying to get out of the bottom.
Not easy with 61 years, do not believe to get better then about 50% (actually about 70).
The rules are as they are, but it would be great to have some categories depending on age.
Ride on!
There are a few Masters (age-based) races out there, look for the ZHR Masters series or anything with “Masters” in the event name. https://zwift.com/events/view/332370
I feel like a big problem is that too many riders expect of themself to win. Some races there are 50 people in your cat. Its just not realistic to be in the top 10 all the time. Losing give you more opportunity to learn and if you lose off sandbaggers, you should tell yourself you did well enough. And know winning in a lower cat can not be as satisfying as performing better then espected in a higher cat.
Im a low cat A rider right now and most of my races dont reach 4.0 wkg. Had some races where zwiftpower got me demoted to B and let me win that race. For me, being in the best half of cat A gave me more joy that race then winning B. But maybe im just seeing things differently
I’ve recently found myself in the same situation. I only started riding Zwift in January after a long period without much time on the bike. Since then my fitness and strength has been improving quicker than I expected. I have raced C Cat through all of Tour de Zwift and have just reached the point where I definitely need to upgrade to B cat. I’m a heavier rider who can put out a load of watts, but struggle on the climbs. So I know I’ll need to pick and choose the courses of my first few B cat races to make sure I can stick with the main group while I (hopefully) continue to improve.
There is also a big problem with category based on W/kg. Heavier rider have a big advantage over lighter one… At same W/kg they are way faster in downhill and flat section, and they are also faster in uphill section.
Category should be made based on result like in real life, not on ftp, W/kg or whatever else.
I’ve had the same problem. If I enter races where only Cat B riders are shown I end up alone at the back. So I try to ride races where all Cats are shown and I can normally find a group to race with at the pace I want on that particular day. The group is frequently made up of riders from all Cats. I enjoy striving to hold the group I’m with on the screen and don’t care what the post race results are.
I also like to ride in ‘races’ with lower Cat riders on a rest day when I cannot find a group ride that fits my schedule. When riding with lower groups I do not push the front and cruise along in the middle of the pack. This has lead to my suspension by Zwift Power. I do think there are quite a lot of people using ‘races’ as training rides, which means that they will be well below their FTP. What would be a full on race for me would be an easy run out for a Cat A rider.
Recently started to race in B as well, which is very challenging. Weirdest thing is lack of enforcement of categories by Zwift itself and no checks on weight either.
When it comes to the categorization system, even ZwiftPower is far from perfect. The example that states that people blast a 10 min effort to break and then sandbag shows one of the massive issues, since on average it looks ok, but the ability to sustain Watts way above the category threshold for 5-10 minutes ensures you destroy the category or hang with the other categories for way too long…
My maximum power is pathetic compared to my averages (more of a timetrialling-type), which inherently makes it unlikely I will win races, since I do not have much of a kick. But I also feel that more advanced categorization is needed here, since now people just sandbag and put out an 1000W sprint for 300m to win say B, but the ability to sprint at such maximums does not really align with B category imho.
And it hugely favors the sit-and-kick types on a lot of courses, but I guess this is the same in real-life cycling that has a lot of fast finishers winning the majority of races. 😀
What I noticed is that C was littered with people pushing 4w/kg and there would often be that 2or3 riders miles above everyone else’s level. Having moved up to B I am much more mid pack and generally make the split only to get shat out later as I can’t hold the wheel, however there doesn’t seem to be anyone miles ahead of anyone else in ability. I hold the hope that eventually this will make me strong enough to be competitive. In summary, it’s harder in the B’s obvs but seems much ‘fairer’ 😊
On the one hand I recognize what you’re saying, went up from C to B as well after 2 DQ’s in the C category (not winning, by the way). With a 3.6 FTP and usual 3.3-3.5 race result, I’m most of the races definitely not in the front group. But what I wonder, is what the reason is why one is participating in racing anyway. I can only speak for myself, but I approach it as a way to push myself hard and racing is just the format.
Ranking high can be exciting of course, but however you organize categorizing it, there will always be some people that are low or high in a category and also probably people just on the line between two categories, maybe going back and forth. And even the greatest top pros will not win everything they participate in. So generally there are always people better than you… I particularly like mass start races with all categories, so I can push even a little harder. Sometimes trying to hang on with a very fast group as long as possible. Sometimes starting easy and then start catching up with a nice group. Always trying to ride smart using the drag and terrain knowledge. And often trying to win the sprint of whichever group I end up in. Always out of breath at the end, sometimes more exhausted than other times, but most of the time challenging on my personal level. And afterwards looking at Strava segments for personal benchmarking and other racers’ numbers to see if I raced smart. I’m especially satisfied when people behind me used more power and I’m inspired by those in front of me who used less (w/kg versus absolute wattage depends on the terrain, but that’s a whole different story).
Maybe it’s because I’m also as a frequent runner mostly interested in my own performance and progress, but I can highly recommend any frustrated Zwift racer to approach it this way, it’s always fun regardless of the event. Ride on!
One point that pertains to many of the comments on this thread is that if you’re serious about racing on Zwift, you should register at zwiftpower.com and use zwiftpower as your metric for how you did in a race. Yes, it’s ridiculous that a third-party website has to serve as the referee and system of record, and yes, zwiftpower doesn’t solve all the issues pertaining to sandbagging and categorization, but it does do a decent job of defining and enforcing category limits, and filtering out sandbaggers. For the guy who lost in a D race to someone averaging 4.89 w/kg, check the results on ZP — I guarantee they don’t have the 4.89 w/kg guy listed as the winner.
I wonder if it’s worth Zwift looking into sub-dividing the categories a bit more, introducing results based tiers within each category. So when you first get “promoted” up to Cat B, you are in the “B3” race, progressing up towards “B1” over time based on your results. Now this could fragment the races a bit more if they are truly separate, or give a massive incentive for B3 riders to cling onto the B1 riders in the front group. But it’s better to say you came in 10th in your tier & 65th overall than just saying you came 65th.
I’m right there with you. I only started Zwifting in December. When I came in, I was right at the top end of C in w/kg. Just about the time I had figured out Zwift racing tactics to the point of nearing a podium in a C race, I was promoted to B. Fair to say its going to be a while before I near a podium spot in a B race. But I agree with your point that the promotion is motivating. I’m not really upset about it. In fact, strategically speaking, entering a B race with the goal of simply hanging on to the pack can be less stressful than trying to win. All you have to do is put your head down and grind to hang onto the wheel in front of you without worrying so much about attacking, covering attacks, and power-ups.
Also, there may be some good news for preventing sandbagging! In the most recent Zcast podcast, Eric Min hinted that they may be rolling out a “ghosting” feature in the next few months where any racer that exceeds a set threshold for the race category will disappear from the race. From that “ghosted” racer’s perspective, they will still be in the race, but they will be invisible to everyone else in the race. The ghosted racer will only find out that they had been ghosted after the race is over.
SAME BOAT!!! I have given up on racing. Now I just train or do group rides. It’s not fun if you are just so far off. Plus I feel its not cool to the C guys to stay. Until Zwift sorts it out I’m out of the racing thing. Maybe there needs to be more classes with higher enforcement… I don’t have the answers but as a rider I’m choosing not to race at this time.
This is where the mixed category races can come in handy. Even if you are a B then you can know how you are doing compared with the C’s. This phenomenon is not unique to Zwift, in fact, it could be stated as something that happens any time in life that someone grows into the next level. The problem is most of us are “old” and less accustomed to being uncomfortable. High School freshman vs seniors compared with competing in the 8th grade, same with college freshman or career progression. Those who succeed generally don’t look back to the old level, other than to encourage others to join them and to respect their progression.
It is so incredibly satisfying to go from getting dropped immediately at a level, to hanging for 10 minutes, then hanging for a lap, and eventually hanging for the whole race! As long as that is your target and thought process, you can always get better.
Mixed races allow you to straddle both levels at the same time while making the transition.
This whole analysis excludes the folks who flat out ride in the wrong category. However, this is probably part of the root cause of that problem. I was frustrated a few weeks back when I got dropped by the A’s (I’m a high end B), then I looked in the final results and there was someone who was riding at 5.6 W/kg using ZP not POWER. His efforts ultimately split the group. Frustrating, yes, but it makes me just want to come back and get stronger…although not everyone is wired the same.
I’ve been on Zwift for a couple years, but I only recently started racing in January. i started in D because i had just finished a Tour de Zwift group ride in LOndon, and a Crit City race was just about to start. Because we’re all crazy, and i hadn’t been to Crit City yet, i decided to give it a try. Even on dead legs, I finished top 10, so I joined ZwiftPower and signed up to race cat C for my second Crit City race the following weekend finishing top 20. i finished top 10 in Richmond (second in ZwiftPower), and then this past weekend in Yorkshire, i was bumped up to B.
i have the same concerns expressed by many. i’m not too worried about the sandbaggers. my main concern is finding a pack to ride with in my next race. But, there’s no prize money or sponsorships waiting for me at the end of the ride even if i do podium. My “training” is my 20 mile round trip commute to work every day. So i’m both proud that i was able to get put into the B’s and concerned about hanging with anyone. Looking at my time on the Yorkshire course against the B’s for that specific time of day race, I might have finished mid-pack there. So, i’ve got that going for me….which is nice.
Great articles and encouragement to give racing a try after avoiding it for a couple years. I was definitely bitten by the bug.
I also found myself disqualified from after not checking to see that I had been upgraded.
Let’s be honest, the only podium is cat A.
Categories are wrong for indoor racing – the system is broken.
There needs to be double the amount of categories for online racing due to the large amount of competitors. Eric Minn (Zwift CEO) has already hinted at a new process to eliminate sandbaggers from entering races inside Zwift to help.
Why not increase the amount of categories (A = A1 / A2) using all the same figures but theoretically splitting the category in half?
This would keep the “C grader” that has currently trained hard and reached the 3.2w/kg “B grade” target through race results feeling positive as they would now be racing a maximum w/kg of 3.6 instead of the 3.99w/kg rider they will currently have to face.
I’m sure with a category restructure the racing fields would swell again and keep people excited no matter what their category.
I think it depends on the time zone. I am in Seattle (PST), and when I come back home from work and go racing, it’s not unusual to have ~15-20 participants in Cat B, even in “larger” events like Tour de Zwift. In races like “Time Trial Tuesday”, I remember racing against 5 or 6 opponents. Crit City – 15-20 max. If you double the number of categories, this won’t help much
Maybe we don’t need to have so many races to choose from? If the number of races were lower, we would get more people in each race.
Started out as a low C as well, made it to “barely B” by now.
Promised myself a new bike if I ever make it to “A”
You’ve just given me an idea 😀
I hate to state the obvious here but….are you guys aware that there is only one winner in a cycling event?
Yeah, it’s true. 90 of you line up, only 1 wins. When you move into the correct class you may never win again. Sorry but it’s a true fact.
The belly aching about “used to be on the podium, got upgraded, now can’t get anywhere near it” is like…duh, no shit sherlock.
“It needs to be more fair”….mmmhmmm, yeah, sure, hate to break it to you but IRL it’s just as bad, maybe worse.
Some (maybe most?) pros (i.e. riders who are way way way faster than you) never win a race in their professional career. Why do you feel it your birthright to podium on every zwift race you enter?
Sorry! 🙁
I was upgraded from women’s C to B a few weeks ago and I was so proud of it!
One year ago, starting with Zwift, I remember myself looking on the power output of the B women and admiring them. To be honest, I wasn’t sure wether I could get there sometime.
I improved and trained well and made it to the Top of C, giving all I had in the races I did. Starting in B, the game changed as you describe, and I needed two or three races to find my new goal – not bring dropped }:‑).
I am far away from staying with the front group, but my actual goal is staying with the second group without destroying myself. Pushing my own numbers until the finish line.
And to be honest, when I look at my watts on Zwiftpower later on, I am proud anyway (most of the time), because I never expected going with an average of 3,6 w/kg, which I can do on a good day on a course which serves me.
I have no doubt I can go further and I hope bring competitive in B one day.
I think, building the mental habit to be “only in the middle” is a very important skill too.
I’m a low Cat C with a 2.6w/kg average according to Zwiftpower. Been stuck here for awhile, not sure I’ll ever improve. I’m 61 years old and only been cycling for just under3 years so not sure it’s even possible for a man my age to improve.
Not enjoying life as a recent upgrade to a B rider. As a solid C, I could generally stay in the lead group although always needing to push myself to do do so and seeing steady improvements in FTP. Now as a B I feel I’m going backwards. I can’t stay with the leading B’s and inevitably find myself near the rear with other B’s who generally are looking to simply finish the ride. When I compare my average power/times against the leading C riders I find I am well below what I would have been were I to ride in the C category. This is a real demotivator and has taken a lot of the fun away from racing for me. I say fun, because I have never regarded winning race on zwift as a priority or even very important, I do it simply for fun and to improve my fitness. I also believe this is why many riders sandbag as they find they are not competitive in the category in which they ride. The problem is that the category bands are too wide ie B is 3.2 – 4.0 w/kg, this for a 75kg rider is 60w. A bottom end B has no chance of staying with top B’s with this difference in power. I believe the solution is to introduce more categories and reduce the range in each eg
A+ 4.5+
A 4 – 4.5
B+ 3.6 – 4
B 3.2 – 3.6
C+ 2.8 – 3.2
C 2.5 – 2.8
D+ 2.2 – 2.5
D – 2.2
The difference in power now between a bottom and top B is now 30w and which is bridgeable with smart riding and drafting and would achieve 3 things
i. Give promoted riders a better chance to be competitive in their new category
ii provide a better race experience to more riders in the race
iii reduce the need to sandbag
I completely agreed the categories are too wide but why do you feel you deserve to be “competitive”, i.e. 1st group in B right after upgrading from C? The fact is that if you happen to be at the lower end of the w/kg scale for any given group it is going to be pretty unrealistic to be on the podium. Your options are to face reality or sandbag. Unfortunately in a race of 50 people, only 1 person wins and statistically it isn’t going to be you.
I think it is not about “deserving” to be competitive but deserving to have fun and have an overall good experience. Zwift is a game and Zwift racing is the most gamified part where you compete against others. Would you play another game that wasn’t exciting and fun?
There should be achievable goals that can be reached within a short time so you experience mastering. If the categories are too wide, one can feel that it is impossible to climb to the top of the category or to the next. That is not very inspiring and one could easily lose interest and motivation.
Think about when you reach the A category. It can be very demotivating to just fill up the last places in the result list and knowing that you have probably reached your peek considering the time and energy you have to put into training. The level of a low A with FTP @ 4 W/Kg to an A+ rider with 5.5+ W/Kg is huge.
Zwift does not have to be like IRL. It should be a game that can drive you to be a better rider in a fun and rewarding way. Racing should be part of this. If Zwift can do this, I think racing would be much more popular than it is today.
I agree with you, with those big gaps it’s gonna be rough for all but the top of the class, for example, if the class is ftp 3.0-4.0 then only the guys near 4.0 are ever going to win. Narrower gaps will help and I agree it will make it more fun.
On the other hand, in bike racing most people do not win or podium and expecting to be in the first group is obviously unrealistic for the majority of racers. We can’t all be winners, we can’t all be the strongest guys in the race. Much like real life, unfortunately.
We are all riding in the wrong category. I can’t ride smart in B’s despite a w/kg of 3.5. My Watts FTP are 235 which means I can’t race flat races and keep up. Drafting doesn’t exist either as I’m flat out trying to hold a wheel, it’s not easier in the draft I just go faster. In a C race I could feel the draft, I ride off the front and felt it in my legs but I got caught by the group and was able to rest in the pack. I attacked on the hills and was able to rest on the descent. Racing as a C was far more enjoyable. BUT I stick to the rules and race as a B and will aim to make gains, try and stick with the pack for mor. Garryhe than 20 mins and build from there. I just hope Zwift has the answer
Excellent article !! You’re expressing a feeling shared by many Zwifters. While I know that there are flaws that are exploited by some, I think Zwift overall is doing a good job in finding a balance between creating a rule framework without overcomplexifying it. Some people will always find ways to beat the system.
My suggestion to Zwift would be to create SOME of the races and multi race events which are much more strict: Obligatory HR monitor, no ZPower, Zwiftpower account required, …
For these specific races, you should only be able to join if you Zwiftpower cat corresponds. That would already make a big difference. Even if many riders get disqualified during the race, I find it demotivating that I cannot keep up with them during, only to see that I have been able to grab a podium finish on ZwiftPower.
Do we need to “move up or down” categories?
I feel like Zwift should ask you to sign up for a race, and then just put you automatically in groups of equal numbers of riders based on your power to weight ratio. So if a field of 400 people signed up for a race it could put you into 4 groups of 100. If you had one of the 100 best ratios of those competing, you’d be in Group 1. If you were 285th, you’d be near the back of Group 3, if you were 305th you’d be one of the favourites to win Group 4.
Your grouping would change every race as different numbers of “stronger” and “weaker” riders sign up, so sometimes you’d be fighting at the front of a group, sometimes you’d be the middle, sometimes you’d be at the back, so it would give variety.
They could give you a seeding 5 minutes before the start and make it fun with a title like “favourite”, “domestique” or “underdog”.
Hi i did a race as a CAT D rider and when a wanted to do another Cat D race it did not allow me to race , is there something wrong with network.
I have just notice that I have been upgraded to B. This has been based on several Time trials I have done. The trouble is that I can just manage a fraction over 3.2 wkg in short time trials at an even pace but in a road race burning all those matches trying to not get dropped I average back below this and usually finish about a 1/3 down the results on zwift power in C group. As I haven’t raced at B yet I don’t know how I will get on but I can imagine getting dropped very early on and end up solo for most of the race which I’m sure will take the fun out of it.
This is happening to me. Although my numbers have me pushing into 3.2 w/k, I do not think I am B material. I am not contending for podiums by any means, as I am falling into 11th-25th in Zwiftpower. I am killing myself to just try and make the actual C break (not the sandbagger break – not possible). I’m achieving this through pain and smart drafting. However, I am hanging on for dear life. This being said, my desire to be a fair player says the numbers make the decision. Racing IRL takes care of this problem as you point up into the next category. If I understand correctly, Zwiftpower will bump me if if the numbers point that direction. I just question why if I am front end pack-fodder I need to move up?
I was reassured to fine this blog this morning… my main search was to see if Zwift drops you back down if your rolling days stats drop. I did 13 rides as a C and was moved to B and have done 3 B rides. I knew straight away at 57yrs; 70kg; 182cm; FTP 219 I’m not going up the ranks anytime soon as I emptied myself on the C cat training/races.
So like others have said the way i am using this is just like our club runs/races – where I end up in a group which I try to stay with or win a sprint from. I found events such as the HDR BACON ROLLS 60 min session in the B Cat very enjoyable where the leader tries to keep everyone together and was tough but not impossible to stay with the group.
I also have done a couple of the Cycling Ireland league races which was very enjoyable again all CATs signed up.
So thanks all for you contributions as I feel better motivated than before i read all this artical and all your replies.